Does Wood Grain Affect Anything?

[meatwad]

Almost every discussion states that wood is an element not "the" element in a basses tone.

Perhaps the least audible element...

 

[chadds]

I've got a really cheap (free) bass that I rebuilt and defretted and it has about a zillion laminations of wood in it's plywood body.

My point: it is a sweet sounding bass. Even with all those 'resonant' and 'harmonic' layers and not forgetting: the glue - it has no significant difference in tone-voice-harmonics-sustain nor playability than any other bass I own.

Of course - it is fretless so it has that certain wowee sound that a non fretted instrument will have. But I cannot say that there's any evidence that the multiple layers of glue is causing any loss of tone. It sounds like a Precision without any frets. That's it - that's all.

Your: "Tobias, Fbass, Alembic, Sadowski etc. state it's significance. All state it's one aspect of tone propagation."

...still leaves me standing pat on my observation that this is the same mystique that keeps selling their instruments.

If they say 'it's the wood' (and they really DO build a pretty bass) and it costs as much as it does to the buyer, then the buyer will parrot the same sentiment.

The buyer'd have to state it unequivocally is so --- or they would have to admit they fell prey to the marketing ploy.

You seem to be wishing to rescue us from some over priced instruments by some gouging luthiers.
Thanks for the effort.
I've experienced the difference between two other wise identical GC basses. My free G&L L1000 is way more resonant than my friend's.

I don't want to argue.

These discussions have illustrated that some people can't hear the difference. Could be belief, ears, technique, amp, or placebo effect. We are having different experiences and that's okay.

 

[meatwad]

Placebo!!

 

[PlungerModerno]

I'm not sure quarter sawn necks are necessarily more stable or make straighter necks than half or rift sawn.

The wood needed for a neck is very little, and taken from an adult tree you can get a lot of almost perfectly straight, knot free necks with a variety of cuts. Laminate necks use even smaller slices of wood so are even easier to get straight grain in.

AFAIK properly dried and finished wood is as important as a strong grain to make the best, stablest necks. With bulkier or reinforced necks it becomes easier to get a long lasting and stable neck.

 

[chadds]

Placebo!!

See.
I believe in the possibility and probability.
In fact I've actually experienced it.

I also know what I hear.
Since I can't hear you play I can't tell if you could hear the distinctions or not.
You may have spent many years in a cinder block room crankin' the volume so perhaps your hearing is shot.
Perhaps the type of music you play it doesn't matter.

This is strange because you wouldn't deny the effect of the mass of the bridge. What about dead spots?

You seem so sure. Nothing is.

 

[thebandcircle]

I see that you are asking about "wood grain", rather than just "woods tonal impact". Some people realign/stagger wood grains when making a neck laminate. This is because they don't trust the wood source. (or unsure about movement later on). Sort of like using a condom when you don't trust the source,(cheap insurance). Speaking of two identical basses built with different woods..if yer using those soft pads of your fingers, you aint gonna hear it. You have to push that instrument to its limit to hear what it's all about. In my local store, nobody could tell the difference between swamp ash and bubinga bodies. And they were right! Until I walked over and shredded these basses to the point of string breakage.."Holy ****" they said "those two sound waaaay different".
"A Ferrari is gonna drive just like a Honda, if you drive it like a Honda..."
I love you Talkbass...We are talkin' 'bout bass right?:scowl:

 

[cnltb]

In the body, neck, or fingerboard, does having a straight grain mean better stability, sustain, etc.?
Or is it purely aesthetics?

Most of the sources I have looked at and the luthiers I have spoken with and whom I respect very much tend to say that flat sawn necks are more stable(slightly stiffer) than quarter sawn.

Bodys have not been subject of those conversations. Neither have finger boards.

 

[chadds]

Sorry. This is about grain.

I was going against that.

 

[Nev375]

I always thought that luthiers developed advanced wood joinery and construction techniques so that natural variations in grain would not matter.

I don't remember "the warm sound of wood" and the whole tonal properties of wood being a marketing trend until Ned Steinberger started using graphite instead.

 

[hdracer]

I have my own ideas about this subject but this is about wood grain in a neck.

If wood and the grain do not matter, how you you explain dead spots in a neck?

 

[FrednBass]

I have my own ideas about this subject but this is about wood grain in a neck.

If wood and the grain do not matter, how you you explain dead spots in a neck?

It's a matter of mass, and not type of wood or grain.

 

[nostatic]

These threads are regular and predictable. And always end up in the same place - nowhere. Bias cuts both ways, though most will only think that the other guy is "wrong" and will not look at how their own perception is colored. And this happens on both sides of the fence.

I know what my personal experience tells me, taking into account my biases. The "scientific" listening tests offered here and elsewhere are almost always anything but rigorous, and fail to take into account the myriad human factors involved is creating music. If one views the wood question as a science experiment, then the answers will skew one direction. If one views it as part of the art of making music, then "truth" likely falls somewhere else. There is no single right answer. To think there is imho means that a person understands neither art nor science. ymmv.

 

[hdracer]

It's a matter of mass, and not type of wood or grain.

Mass in a piece of wood would come down to grain structure.

If it was just mass a Jazz neck would have more dead spots then a P neck.

 

[Munjibunga]

These threads are regular and predictable. And always end up in the same place - nowhere. Bias cuts both ways, though most will only think that the other guy is "wrong" and will not look at how their own perception is colored. And this happens on both sides of the fence.

I know what my personal experience tells me, taking into account my biases. The "scientific" listening tests offered here and elsewhere are almost always anything but rigorous, and fail to take into account the myriad human factors involved is creating music. If one views the wood question as a science experiment, then the answers will skew one direction. If one views it as part of the art of making music, then "truth" likely falls somewhere else. There is no single right answer. To think there is imho means that a person understands neither art nor science. ymmv.

I'm just going to go with what the guys at Fodera think. They've been building basses much longer than I have.

 

[meatwad]

See.
I believe in the possibility and probability.
In fact I've actually experienced it.

I also know what I hear.
Since I can't hear you play I can't tell if you could hear the distinctions or not.
You may have spent many years in a cinder block room crankin' the volume so perhaps your hearing is shot.
Perhaps the type of music you play it doesn't matter.

This is strange because you wouldn't deny the effect of the mass of the bridge. What about dead spots?

You seem so sure. Nothing is.

You seem awfully condescending in your speculation there, basically implying I am deaf and/or dumb. Nice.

IMO, bridge mass doesn't mean much, unless you're that guy who bought a Badass II in an attempt to cop that Geddy growl. Then, I would probably expect you to argue all day long about how damn awesome that bridge makes your bass sound. Placebo effect in action.

Headstock mass seems to have an effect on dead spots, not what type of wood the neck or fingerboard is made of. Even the various methods of construction doesn't change the fact that the majority of basses have a dead spot around the 7th fret on the g-string. Some are more obvious than others, some almost non-existent. But they are there.

My original point was, IMO strings alone are the greatest factor in tone. Wood is one of the least decisive factors in tone, regardless of type or grain. All the other stuff is somewhere in between, yet they all add up to create what that particular bass sounds like.

Please note the use of the acronym "IMO".

 

[SurferJoe46]

It's a matter of mass, and not type of wood or grain.

I think dead or muted notes are more a factor of neck length - the 'cantilever effect' as I see it.

Since a great many basses run the same neck length from nut to body, then most would naturally have approximately the same dead notes.

There are surely many basses that exhibit that same phenomenon if they are at least in the same ballpark for neck design ie: length.

Exceptions are like my SR500 with the very much longer neck that has no discernible dead zone and the AEB10 which has a shorter neck and hasn't got the same dead note(s) - although it has a couple of muted notes too, but in different locations.

The Fender length - typically - seems to induce the dead notes purely by it's length I feel. All other Fender clones have approximately the same situational condition.

That's what I think.

 

[seang15]

It affects the eyes. Wood grain can be very purdy.

 

[James Mobius]

Even the various methods of construction doesn't change the fact that the majority of basses have a dead spot around the 7th fret on the g-string. Some are more obvious than others, some almost non-existent.

I've never heard that, I've owned between 30 and 40 basses and played many more in over 3 decades, I haven't found that. has anyone else?

 

[meatwad]

I've never heard that, I've owned between 30 and 40 basses and played many more in over 3 decades, I haven't found that. has anyone else?

You've never encountered a dead spot ever? Or in that position?

 

[James Mobius]

This might be a good time to point out the http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/scrap-lumber-bass-vs-alder-bass-can-you-tell-difference-743932/ thread for those that have not seen it.
Have a listen and decide for yourself.

ok I checked out that thread with mp3s, I won't give away what's what for those who haven't listened yet, there are 3 clips, 2 are the same bass, and after listening only once to each track, I correctly identified which was which. I thought the Jazz bass had a slightly fatter rounder and nicer tone than the one made of a hunk of unidentified lumber.

I have to say I feel really smug right now haha. I don't even think I'm that much of an audiophile. I have always worn earplugs, at rehearsals, gigs, concerts and movies. I put my fingers in my ears when a siren goes by.

I will add the difference is rather subtle, and the scrap lumber bass sounded perfectly nice. that said I will continue to build basses with the nicest looking wood I can find unless they're to be painted opaque, (which I'm mostly against in principle, but if your money's green, your bass can be too if that's what you want d: )

but I still feel wicked smug! heh.