Don't "clench your buttocks" around cops...

[wraub]

I haven't looked at the article recently, but were the police officers the ones who did all the examinations? Also, did they issue their own warrant? You state they "violated judges' orders". The judge issued the warrant. If the judged wouldn't have, they wouldn't have done what they did I'm sure.

Also, what "plenty" do they deserve? You didn't answer my question. Please be specific.

Well, the police went to one Dr. who refused the procedure. They went to another hospital, in a different county, which invalidated the search warrant.
Additionally, in doing this, by the time they got the procedures done, it was after the time limit on the search warrant, another invalidation of the warrant. The police are now, in this case, lawbreakers. You look, find nothing, and look again and find nothing. Continuing the already warrantless empty-handed search at that point is both assaultive and criminal, imo.

As for "plenty" the police directly involved in the incident need to face charges commensurate with the crime.

If there was no warrant in effect, as would be the case if, say you or I did this to somebody, then this reeks of strongarm kidnapping and sexual assault. Previous alleged suspect history is but a guidepost to caution, not a set of directions to action. Correlation is not causation, or something.

Last I heard, kidnapping and sexual assault both were serious charges, possibly worthy of both a Grand Jury and a Criminal Trial.
If a properly empaneled Grand Jury sees fit to instruct for prosecution, then it's up to the courts to decide. A civil case is almost a given, conviction at criminal or not.
Both of these charges can carry some pretty stiff penalties.

Be interesting to see the verdict(s) from a jury.

Obviously, if convicted, the officers directly involved need to face removal from the force, and possible refusal of future Police service anywhere, just as even a court appearance or conviction might cost you or I a job.
A review sounds likely and needed regardless of conviction.

The Dr.(s) involved need to face a Medical review board, and possible loss of license. Unless they assert coercion from the cops, which, again, throws the criminal ball back to the officers involved. Such a review procedure, even if no action results, would likely raise their malpractice insurance rates.

Definitely a case worth watching.

 

[Balog]

I show respect to people I interact with. However, people who put their life on the line so I can enjoy mine deserve a little more respect than the person making my pancakes at the diner.

-Mike

Modern life would be impossible without the contribution of those other jobs you disdain. The people who build and maintain roads and buildings, the people who build and maintain the electrical grid, the people who transport raw materials, the people who extract those raw materials: all of them have done far more to preserve your life and make it better than any cop. And many of them die or get crippled more frequently than any cop.

Maybe it's not as glamorous as the occasional cop who gets shot (keep in mind that roughly half of all police deaths are from car accidents so the rate who die violently is even more miniscule) but you'd be starving in a mud hut without construction workers and truckers and all the other blue collar jobs that don't have fancy PR departments to mythologize them.

Why is a lineman who dies so that a hospital can have electricity any less heroic or valuable than a cop who gets shot after pulling someone over for speeding?

 

[Metalbasspro]

But, after the initial xray, and the initial enema, they had no evidence of contraband, correct? Yet they persisted to possibly life threatening ends, against the pleas of the suspect, (and the earlier objections of a different Dr.), despite a no-longer valid search warrant? And then (the hospital, also culpable) billed the suspect for his trouble?

I see a forcibly detained person, held without evidence, subjected to humiliating and possibly dangerous procedures, in direct violation of County, State, and Federal law, in direct violation of a Judges' orders, and with apparent disregard to what should be considered correct or decent. Or Legal.

I think they deserve plenty. We'll see what they get.

Correct. I was not there but have been detained plenty and it looks to me that after the X ray it just became a game to harass.

 

[Balog]

Also, an example of what I mean when I say cops are legally a special class. Invalid Link Removed

This is also a rebuttal to the claim that bad cops are a rare exception that get disproportionate airtime. How many of the above incidents made national news? The majority of stories about bad cops who happen to be caught are not widely reported.

 

[bassinplace]

I show respect to people I interact with. However, people who put their life on the line so I can enjoy mine deserve a little more respect than the person making my pancakes at the diner.

-Mike

Well, by that logic the person making your pancakes is keeping you alive. Sounds just as important, imo.

 

[Metalbasspro]

I've read from at least one news outlet that the plaintiff in this case had previously had a run-in with this same police department where he was found to be "rat holing" something illicit. I don't know if it's in an official police report, but CNN.com did cite an affidavit from a K-9 officer who said that the subject of the search had a history of hiding drugs in his rectum.

Regardless of that one fact, the cops seem to have just taken this incident way too far. I have to applaud the doctors at the first ER who refused to conduct the search on ethical grounds. But the x-ray results should have been enough to end this incident. But when the cops persisted and had the doctors perform more invasive searches? And this is despite the fact that the police had already overstepped the boundaries of their search warrant by leaving a specific jurisdiction? This guy has total grounds to sue the police. Especially since they flagrantly violated his 4th amendment rights.

Need more info on this. Something solid. It's SOP to try and excuse bad actions by police with something, anything that can be offered up in the face of public outrage.

I remember the cop who was hitting the young black youth who was in cuffs at a gas station. The excuse was the kid had kicked or hit the officers balls.

This was put out by media and the defenders of police brutality and mis conduct as if it was a valid excuse.

 

[BawanaRik]

Modern life would be impossible without the contribution of those other jobs you disdain. The people who build and maintain roads and buildings, the people who build and maintain the electrical grid, the people who transport raw materials, the people who extract those raw materials: all of them have done far more to preserve your life and make it better than any cop. And many of them die or get crippled more frequently than any cop.

Maybe it's not as glamorous as the occasional cop who gets shot (keep in mind that roughly half of all police deaths are from car accidents so the rate who die violently is even more miniscule) but you'd be starving in a mud hut without construction workers and truckers and all the other blue collar jobs that don't have fancy PR departments to mythologize them.

Why is a lineman who dies so that a hospital can have electricity any less heroic or valuable than a cop who gets shot after pulling someone over for speeding?

The state where I live actually reqires motorist to move to the left when a cop pulls a car over.

If you don't have the cranial capacity to keep out of traffic I can't how reasonable doubt isn't one's middles name.

 

[michael_atw]

Well, the police went to one Dr. who refused the procedure. They went to another hospital, in a different county, which invalidated the search warrant.
Additionally, in doing this, by the time they got the procedures done, it was after the time limit on the search warrant, another invalidation of the warrant. The police are now, in this case, lawbreakers. You look, find nothing, and look again and find nothing. Continuing the already warrantless empty-handed search at that point is both assaultive and criminal, imo.

As for "plenty" the police directly involved in the incident need to face charges commensurate with the crime.

If there was no warrant in effect, as would be the case if, say you or I did this to somebody, then this reeks of strongarm kidnapping and sexual assault. Previous alleged suspect history is but a guidepost to caution, not a set of directions to action. Correlation is not causation, or something.

Last I heard, kidnapping and sexual assault both were serious charges, possibly worthy of both a Grand Jury and a Criminal Trial.
If a properly empaneled Grand Jury sees fit to instruct for prosecution, then it's up to the courts to decide. A civil case is almost a given, conviction at criminal or not.
Both of these charges can carry some pretty stiff penalties.

Be interesting to see the verdict(s) from a jury.

Obviously, if convicted, the officers directly involved need to face removal from the force, and possible refusal of future Police service anywhere, just as even a court appearance or conviction might cost you or I a job.
A review sounds likely and needed regardless of conviction.

The Dr.(s) involved need to face a Medical review board, and possible loss of license. Unless they assert coercion from the cops, which, again, throws the criminal ball back to the officers involved. Such a review procedure, even if no action results, would likely raise their malpractice insurance rates.

Definitely a case worth watching.

So you say they "found nothing". Seems to be they "found nothing" because doctors refused. Not because there was "nothing" at that point.

You still didn't give specifics other than comparisons to "sexual assault" and rape. I can only surmise you want these officers to be sent to jail for a couple decades and registered as felonious sex offenders. Sounds more like making a statement than administering justice.

Also, if I was one of those police officers I would hardly be able to dismiss previous issues with the person as you have. Obviously there was enough suspicion based on something tangible that a judge sent a warrant to search. I wouldn't know as I'm not in NM nor am I in the court.

 

[michael_atw]

The state where I live actually reqires motorist to move to the left when a cop pulls a car over.

If you don't have the cranial capacity to keep out of traffic I can't how reasonable doubt isn't one's middles name.

I'm trying to get the gist of what this post means. I'm not sure if you're insulting the intelligence of a police officer.

 

[MJ5150]

Modern life would be impossible without the contribution of those other jobs you disdain.

Slow down. I don't have disdain or ill feelings for those trades. I spent 15+ years as a drywall finisher myself.

-Mike

 

[wraub]

So you say they "found nothing". Seems to be they "found nothing" because doctors refused. Not because there was "nothing" at that point.

You still didn't give specifics other than comparisons to "sexual assault" and rape. I can only surmise you want these officers to be sent to jail for a couple decades and registered as felonious sex offenders. Sounds more like making a statement than administering justice.

Also, if I was one of those police officers I would hardly be able to dismiss previous issues with the person as you have. Obviously there was enough suspicion based on something tangible that a judge sent a warrant to search. I wouldn't know as I'm not in NM nor am I in the court.

Well, the first Dr. refused on ethical grounds. After a second Dr. at a different hospital, in a different County agreed to continue, and repeated digital exams, an xray, and an enema, they found nothing. Nothing at that point is, pretty much, nothing.
The Dr. involved with what actually happened did not apparently refuse, to the point of administering further enemas and a colonoscopy.


I never said "rape" I said kidnapping and sexual assault.
With no search warrant in play, that is what we have here. Cops with no jurisdiction, forcible detention, and physical violation.
I never suggested "sexual offender" charges. I suggested that whatever charges may arise be the same for the actual actions taken as they would be had you or I done the same. And, had you or I done the same, how do you suppose the justice system would label us?

Assumptions on your part re: my intent do not prove my intent. Just as in this case.


And yes, there was apparent probable cause for the warrant to be issued, although with stipulations, such as a time window.
Once the window had closed, and the trip to a different Dr. and county occured, there was no legal basis for the actions taken, warrant or not. The laws pertaining to the use of the warrant were broken, hence no warrant, hence all actions stemming from the use of the warrant were, um, warrantless. Even if they found anything, it's fruit from a poisoned tree. Hence, criminal action, whether or not criminal intent was involved.

 

[aborgman]

I show respect to people I interact with. However, people who put their life on the line so I can enjoy mine deserve a little more respect than the person making my pancakes at the diner.

Fishermen, farmers, taxi drivers, landscapers, power line electricians, roofers, and police officers ALL put their life on the line so you can enjoy yours.

A number of them are MORE likely to die than police officers while performing said service for you.

A police officer is paid to do a dangerous job for the public.
A bartender is paid to do (an even more) dangerous job for public.

 

[aborgman]

So you say they "found nothing". Seems to be they "found nothing" because doctors refused. Not because there was "nothing" at that point.

They took him to Hospital #1. The XRay showed nothing. Doctors refused to search.

THEN they took him to ANOTHER hospital. Outside the county where the warrant was valid, past the time where the warrant was valid... and those doctors DID search him.

They also (like the XRay) found nothing.

Are you arguing that somehow, while in police custody being transported between hospitals, an item disappeared from his rectum?

Really?

He really had something, but it miraculously vanished while in police custody?

 

[Balog]

Slow down. I don't have disdain or ill feelings for those trades. I spent 15+ years as a drywall finisher myself.

-Mike

Saying that the deaths of people who are not cops matters less than the deaths of those who are seems fairly disdainful to me.

 

[wraub]

And, here's another thought:

The search warrant had legal stipulations, which presumably were addressed in court and to the officers, and, presumably, were printed in some part on the warrant itself.

So, did the cops willingly disregard such stipulations (willfully criminal), or were they somehow ignorant or unaware of such stipulations and carried on regardless (criminally negligent)?

 

[MJ5150]

Saying that the deaths of people who are not cops matters less than the deaths of those who are seems fairly disdainful to me.

I didn't say that. My comments were about the measure of honor and respect to those folks.

-Mike

 

[bassinplace]

I didn't say that. My comments were about the measure of honor and respect to those folks.

-Mike

I don't believe they deserve any more or less honor or respect than anyone else who performs competently within their chosen field.

 

[MJ5150]

I don't believe they deserve any more or less honor or respect than anyone else who performs competently within their chosen field.

That's fine. I have no issues with how you feel.

-Mike

 

[bassinplace]

That's fine. I have no issues with how you feel.

-Mike

Likewise. Just trying to get your take on why you feel they should deserve more. Guess I should've added a "how so?" at the start of my statement.

 

[MJ5150]

In my opinion, choosing a career as a law enforcement officer brings inherent risks and dangers that other professions do not. Especially so since those risks and dangers are known up front and happen daily. Every job has some inherent risk to it, especially just getting in your car to drive to work. Or if you're like me and work from home, I could fall off my chair today and break my neck and die. I suppose my IT job is dangerous too.

It doesn't mean I have disdain or dislike for other professions. Heck, I'm just some pussy sitting behind a keyboard typing all day. I'm too afraid to work in law enforcement. Where it is different for me is I won't go out of my way to say thank you and shake the hand of the cook who made the omelette for me at Denny's, where I may stop to shake the hand of a police officer when I am out and about and see them working. Would I never shake the hand of someone who prepared me a meal? Nope. If I eat out somewhere and have an extraordinary meal. I'll stop and thank the cooks and wait staff. I am thanking those people for a wonderful meal, not for protecting me and my community.

Have I put that police officer up on a pedestal, immune from scrutiny and responsibility? Not at all. But I also recognize them for doing a job that is often overly unpleasant. Is being a cook at Denny's pleasant? Probably not, but it doesn't appear to me to be as dangerous as chasing criminals.

-Mike