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Don't "clench your buttocks" around cops...

#221
Long post warning. Feel free to tl:dr if you must..

Maybe if I put in this way - police have the job of enforcing the law. The law that we're all supposed to obey. No worries there, it works. These same police, in order to enforce the law have also been given the authority to arrest you, as paranoid as it might sound (sorry), they even hurt or kill you if they deem it necessary in the circumstance (their safety, public safety, etc). So far so good. Most of us accept that as a necessity in society.

The reason that things as mentioned in the OP bother me, is because by the simple fact of the job they do, they have authority over us all. Again, that's not a bad thing, they need to. But because they do, I believe that they need to be very mindful in the way that they conduct themselves. Greater authority = greater responsibility if things are supposed to work smoothly.
Taking a guy and having him forcibly penetrated anally is absolutely depraved. It's disgusting and frightening that they can do this to you. Sure, they may get in deep trouble after the fact but what was this guy supposed to do while it was happening? If he would have resisted he may have been shot and killed, no? At the very least tazed or beaten. That's NOT scary to anyone here?

Edit - nah, story gone. Probably not a good idea for several reasons
 
#226
MJ5150 said:
I don't have any issues with pointing out improper behavior and expecting that person to be held accountable. I don't think anyone here has disagreed with you about that. I'm totally on your side there. I would expect that in any profession, in my family, and even among my friends.

Where you lost me was your generalizations of police officers, and then when you commented that your job is more dangerous. Perhaps I overreacted to those posts of yours, but from my monitor those comments looked like the typical ones that come from people who strongly dislike police officers. Thanks for clearing that up in an earlier post.

-Mike
Click to expand...

The dangers and hardships of the job are greatly exaggerated, and then used to excuse all sorts of abuses because "officer safety!" It's important to look at the actual facts and statistics, realize that being a cop isn't all that dangerous, and assess the powers and exemptions they have been given in a realistic light. Instead of making unjustified assumptions about what a horrible awful person anyone who says anything about corruption and abuse amongst the police is.
 
#228
MJ5150 said:
Don't stress over the what ifs. It's not worth it. It happened, it's over. But I have to ask, did you embellish that story at all?

-Mike
Click to expand...

I've passed on the story as it was told to me. I was not there but I have no reason to doubt it based on what my son and the ex told me. She spoke to a lawyer about it and was advised that it probably wouldn't go anywhere.
It's a college town with a large percentage of young adults and a smaller police force if that helps with perspective at all.
 
#229
Balog said:
The dangers and hardships of the job are greatly exaggerated, and then used to excuse all sorts of abuses because "officer safety!" It's important to look at the actual facts and statistics, realize that being a cop isn't all that dangerous, and assess the powers and exemptions they have been given in a realistic light. Instead of making unjustified assumptions about what a horrible awful person anyone who says anything about corruption and abuse amongst the police is.
Click to expand...

You obviously have some stats to prove your point, but what isn't available in stats is what you or I have to deal with at our jobs compared to being a police officer. It surprises me that you think that being a police officer isn't all that dangerous.

Also, I never considered you a horrible awful person. If I did, I would not have engaged you in this conversation.

-Mike
 
#232
bassinplace said:
Cops are charged with enforcing the law. One's civil liberties must be protected by oneself. Society decides which of the two take precedence. It's everyone's responsibility.
Click to expand...

I would tend to agree, but what recourse does one have while their rights are being violated...? Know what I mean?
The guy in the OP can sue, he can possibly make it so that heads can roll legally, that's his right but that night....
he could do little to nothing.
If he tried to physically resist, he could have even now be dead. That's scary to me!
 
#233
Relic said:
I would tend to agree, but what recourse does one have while their rights are being violated...? Know what I mean?
The guy in the OP can sue, he can possibly make it so that heads can roll legally, that's his right but that night....
he could do little to nothing.
If he tried to physically resist, he could have even now be dead. That's scary to me!
Click to expand...

I think that comes down to how society views it at large. If they view police as saviors from all that is wrong in the world, then they give them too much authority and greater leeway for abuses of authority. If they view them as having a specific function and those boundaries are not to be overstepped, then they are placed in their proper sphere. Sometimes the good guys get the upper hand and sometimes the bad guys do, but it's important to be able to distinguish the two from the start.
 
#238
Relic said:
Long post warning. Feel free to tl:dr if you must..

Maybe if I put in this way - police have the job of enforcing the law. The law that we're all supposed to obey. No worries there, it works. These same police, in order to enforce the law have also been given the authority to arrest you, as paranoid as it might sound (sorry), they even hurt or kill you if they deem it necessary in the circumstance (their safety, public safety, etc). So far so good. Most of us accept that as a necessity in society.

The reason that things as mentioned in the OP bother me, is because by the simple fact of the job they do, they have authority over us all. Again, that's not a bad thing, they need to. But because they do, I believe that they need to be very mindful in the way that they conduct themselves. Greater authority = greater responsibility if things are supposed to work smoothly.
Taking a guy and having him forcibly penetrated anally is absolutely depraved. It's disgusting and frightening that they can do this to you. Sure, they may get in deep trouble after the fact but what was this guy supposed to do while it was happening? If he would have resisted he may have been shot and killed, no? At the very least tazed or beaten. That's NOT scary to anyone here?

Edit - nah, story gone. Probably not a good idea for several reasons
Click to expand...

I am a radical so my view point is after the X ray turned up clean they had no further probable cause. In my mind the citizen is now within his rights to resist and just as with the police he has the right to resist using the force necessary to stop the abuse. If that means he has to kill them, I would consider it a just killing.

That all said in theory. In practice the citizen is likely to lose in that game.

The problem is with the Head of Police in that department. He stated when asked by a reporter if people should be afraid to enter his jurisdiction and he said no not if they are not violating any laws.

Of course the guy they raped was only guilty of a minor traffic violation.
 
#239
Relic said:
Yeah. This is why I sometimes think that "public outrage" may not always be a bad thing. Sometimes it's plain goofy for sure, but other times I think it has it's place.
In this instance and in others like it, I think it does.
Click to expand...

It's our responsibility to watch the watchdogs. We can't just pay our taxes and think it creates a magic safety bubble. Cops are there to do a job and it's up to the law abiding members of society to make sure it's being done properly.
 
#240
michael_atw said:
You're supposed to take up arms. Revolution time. Buy the entire Rage Against the Machine discography. Let it be a confirmation bias of your presumptions about the evils of any authority figures that have and will exist in your life. Most notably, the ones that restrict you from doing whatever you want.

Overthrow the system, man.
Click to expand...

Added an important part that you forgot. :D

In all seriousness, I'm squarely in the camp that officers or anyone in such a position of authority should be closely scrutinized. There has often been a philosophy that public service is considered one of the most noblest pursuits that a person can do. Unfortunately, that seems to be idealistic. So many people get into public service to boost their own egos or to fill their own coffers. And I'm not anti-cop, BTW. Also, Cheezewhiz is an awesome dude. :)
 

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