Don't "clench your buttocks" around cops...

[fmoore200]

I got a ticket when I was 10 while riding my bike and not stopping at a stop sign. I was riding on the sidewalk.

I wish they would treat bicyclists the same as motorists, tbh. The ridiculous way that some bicyclists operate their vehicle is dangerous to themselves and others.

Attn potential outraged bicyclists:

I purposefully used the qualifier "some" in my post so I don't get flamed.

 

[Stewie26]

I don't hate cops a priori, I just don't have any naive fantasies that they're brave heroes who want noting more than to serve and protect me. They're guys collecting a paycheck like anyone else. Some are good, some are bad, most are indifferent and just want to do their job and go home.

However, they have been given an inordinate amount of power, and an ever decreasing amount of personal responsibility. If I shoot someone unjustifiably it will destroy my life (and many times even if the shoot was perfectly justifiable). Cops kill/beat/kidnap/rape on a regular basis and both society in general and the legal system in specific shield them from the consequences of their actions.

Cops are just ordinary people. But they've been elevated to the status of knights in feudal Europe: a special, better class of people who are not truly bound by the laws they claim to enforce. And that's not rhetoric, there are any number of laws that cops or ex-cops are given special exemptions from. And if there's one thing that history has shown it's that power corrupts. And the more power that is given to them as a class, the less accountability that they have as a class, the more heavily armed and armored and aggressive they become, the more they dress and talk and train and act like a military force: the worse that the corruption and abuse of power will become.

So what is you solution and how would you fix it?
You could say no cops at all but would you really want to live
in a society without cops?

 

[bassinplace]

So what is you solution and how would you fix it?
You could say no cops at all but would you really want to live
in a society without cops?

Cops are an absolute necessity, we'd be screwed without them, but they also have a tremendous amount of responsibility they are given with the public trust. Their proper position is one of a servant to the public, not a lord. Some cops realize this and some don't. I fear there are becoming greater numbers of the ones who don't. I suspect the police force in general is probably being trained more towards the mind set of public controller than that of public servant.

 

[Balog]

Right, but playing sparky for 8-10 hours a day is far different than willingly putting your life on the line to defend your life or the life of others you don't even know. Big difference from some random stats that says more electricians die than police officers.

Look, I get it, you don't like police officers. It took a few pages of posts for me to catch on, but now I know where you stand. I should have sniffed you out sooner. My mistake.

-Mike

You're very wrong here. Refusal to say "Oh my gosh they're heroes who deserve to be exempt from the laws they enforce" is not blanket dislike for cops. I dislike the position they are placed into, not the people (for the most part, Rapey McButtprobe from the OP and his ilk being an exception).

Look, all I'm saying is that cops are just normal folks, and society putting them into a position where they can abuse their authority with relative impunity leads to increasing numbers of them abusing their authority. The fact that this is such a controversial position is perfect evidence of the problem I'm talking about.

 

[Balog]

So what is you solution and how would you fix it?
You could say no cops at all but would you really want to live
in a society without cops?

I want cops to be held accountable for the law like everyone else. I want people to realize that they are not mythical heroes on a pedestal that require no oversight. They're normal people doing a normal blue collar job no better or worse, no harder or more dangerous, than most others. I just want to demythologize them, and see them held accountable to the law like everyone else.

Treating all criticism of cops as a class as irrational hatred or thinking "oh I've got your number now, you're just a hater lolz" isn't logical. I can criticize a group without being motivated by blind ideological hatred.

 

[mbelue]

I want cops to be held accountable for the law like everyone else. I want people to realize that they are not mythical heroes on a pedestal that require no oversight. They're normal people doing a normal blue collar job no better or worse, no harder or more dangerous, than most others. I just want to demythologize them, and see them held accountable to the law like everyone else.

Treating all criticism of cops as a class as irrational hatred or thinking "oh I've got your number now, you're just a hater lolz" isn't logical. I can criticize a group without being motivated by blind ideological hatred.

There are two types of people who go into law enforcement.
Those who genuinely want to do the right thing and are willing to be paid crap to do it.
Those who feel like the "fringe benefits" of the job outweigh the crappy wages.
The former should be there and paid well.
Some of the latter will turn into good cops, some won't.
I won't estimate what percentage is majority. But I've met plenty of both.

 

[matante]

This really shouldn't be a discussion about whether cops are good or bad. The question posed by the incident in NM is, what will happen to these bad cops? What happens to 'bad' cops in general? Do 'bad' cops get what they deserve?

 

[SJLee]

I wish they would treat bicyclists the same as motorists, tbh. The ridiculous way that some bicyclists operate their vehicle is dangerous to themselves and others.

Attn potential outraged bicyclists:

I purposefully used the qualifier "some" in my post so I don't get flamed.

I would agree with you on the riders who routinely ride though intersections without stopping as we wait for them. In this case I thought it was a bit much to give a kid a citation for not stopping at a stop sign when I was riding on the sidewalk and made a right turn, never entering the intersection, never impeding traffic or putting myself in danger.

 

[45acp]

I think (and this is just my lone opinion) that a large part of this issue is due to the militarization of law enforcement in this country. A lot of this started after the so called "war on drugs" took off, and has gotten out of hand as of late. Even our small town county deputies all look like Navy Seals with AR's in the trunk, wearing 9 lbs. of Velcro and 6 extra magazines on each leg and body armor. They have been trained to deal with the public as enemy combatants. And as an enemy combatant, you don't have the same constitutional rights as a citizen.

As a disclaimer I am NOT anti-LEO.

 

[MJ5150]

You're very wrong here. Refusal to say "Oh my gosh they're heroes who deserve to be exempt from the laws they enforce" is not blanket dislike for cops. I dislike the position they are placed into, not the people (for the most part, Rapey McButtprobe from the OP and his ilk being an exception).

Look, all I'm saying is that cops are just normal folks, and society putting them into a position where they can abuse their authority with relative impunity leads to increasing numbers of them abusing their authority. The fact that this is such a controversial position is perfect evidence of the problem I'm talking about.

My mistake. Your earlier answer to my "what do we do about this?" question where you said you will make every effort you can to let people know police officers aren't really the great people we may think they are and the majority are ego driven translated in my mind to you not liking them.

Are you concerned that my viewing police officers in general as good natured people putting their life on the line to protect me and my community is contributing to the potential abuses of power? How would you suggest I treat a police officer if I am doing this incorrectly?

I don't actually disagree with you about the potential for and actual abuses of power, like the one this thread is about. I'm not looking to change your mind, just sharing mine which seems to be alarming to you somewhat.

-Mike

 

[Stewie26]

I want cops to be held accountable for the law like everyone else. .

.

I think 99 percent of the posters here will agree with your statement above. But any group of people in any profession are going to have good ones and bad ones and lot of these professions do require public trust. There are good and bad doctors, airline pilots, bus drivers, electricians, etc,. These professions require special training and some type of government certification first to protect the public . There is just no easy way to protect the public from the bad ones that do get thru the system. Only when the bad ones screw up and get caught then our system then tries to fix it. Of course many times it has made national news by then.

 

[Munjibunga]

I don't hate cops a priori, I just don't have any naive fantasies that they're brave heroes who want noting more than to serve and protect me. They're guys collecting a paycheck like anyone else. Some are good, some are bad, most are indifferent and just want to do their job and go home.

However, they have been given an inordinate amount of power, and an ever decreasing amount of personal responsibility. If I shoot someone unjustifiably it will destroy my life (and many times even if the shoot was perfectly justifiable). Cops kill/beat/kidnap/rape on a regular basis and both society in general and the legal system in specific shield them from the consequences of their actions.

Cops are just ordinary people. But they've been elevated to the status of knights in feudal Europe: a special, better class of people who are not truly bound by the laws they claim to enforce. And that's not rhetoric, there are any number of laws that cops or ex-cops are given special exemptions from. And if there's one thing that history has shown it's that power corrupts. And the more power that is given to them as a class, the less accountability that they have as a class, the more heavily armed and armored and aggressive they become, the more they dress and talk and train and act like a military force: the worse that the corruption and abuse of power will become.

ROFL.

 

[fmoore200]

I would agree with you on the riders who routinely ride though intersections without stopping as we wait for them. In this case I thought it was a bit much to give a kid a citation for not stopping at a stop sign when I was riding on the sidewalk and made a right turn, never entering the intersection, never impeding traffic or putting myself in danger.

I agree with you. I just used your initial post as a step on to my soap box

 

[Metalbasspro]

Didn't some guy get charged with assault for farting at a cop?

I don't know but my nephew was in jail getting the strip search when a guy next to him or two over was told to bend over and cough. He farted, probably on purpose, was laughing his @@@ off as the cop jacked him up with the night stick.

 

[Balog]

I think 99 percent of the posters here will agree with your statement above. But any group of people in any profession are going to have good ones and bad ones and lot of these professions do require public trust. There are good and bad doctors, airline pilots, bus drivers, electricians, etc,. These professions require special training and some type of government certification first to protect the public . There is just no easy way to protect the public from the bad ones that do get thru the system. Only when the bad ones screw up and get caught then our system then tries to fix it. Of course many times it has made national news by then.

But none of those other people have immunity, qualified or sovreign. Recently, a prosecutor was found to have deliberately withheld evidence showing a man was innocent. That man rotted in jail for 25 years. The prosecutor was found guilty of deliberately sending an innocent man to jail, and sentenced to 500 hours of community service. This was hailed as a great victory for civil liberty, because it was the first time a prosecutor was held criminally accountable for their crimes in office.

Think about that. A man abused his authority to stick an innocent person into jail. 25 years stolen, not to mention the very high chance of assault or rape. And for this he got community service.

That's what I'm angry about. The system that places cops and prosecutors above the law, that almost always fails to punish them for their crimes, and that dishes out ridiculous slaps on the wrist like community service for stealing 25 years of a man's life.

 

[Balog]

My mistake. Your earlier answer to my "what do we do about this?" question where you said you will make every effort you can to let people know police officers aren't really the great people we may think they are and the majority are ego driven translated in my mind to you not liking them.

Are you concerned that my viewing police officers in general as good natured people putting their life on the line to protect me and my community is contributing to the potential abuses of power? How would you suggest I treat a police officer if I am doing this incorrectly?

I don't actually disagree with you about the potential for and actual abuses of power, like the one this thread is about. I'm not looking to change your mind, just sharing mine which seems to be alarming to you somewhat.

-Mike

I want people to demythologize cops, because that's the first step to holding them accountable.

If a business owner said "Our cashiers are brave heroes putting themselves on the line for us EVERY DAY so anyone who wants to count their register at the end of the shift is obviously just a hater" he would be laughed at because it's ridiculous. And yet time and again we see that attitude towards cops. Point out bad cops? Hater, I'm going to ignore you. Want increased accountability for cops? Hater, I'm going to ignore you. Point out that many of the "good" cops turn a blind eye to the bad cops? hater, I'm going to ignore you. And on and on.

 

[MJ5150]

I don't have any issues with pointing out improper behavior and expecting that person to be held accountable. I don't think anyone here has disagreed with you about that. I'm totally on your side there. I would expect that in any profession, in my family, and even among my friends.

Where you lost me was your generalizations of police officers, and then when you commented that your job is more dangerous. Perhaps I overreacted to those posts of yours, but from my monitor those comments looked like the typical ones that come from people who strongly dislike police officers. Thanks for clearing that up in an earlier post.

-Mike

 

[DwaynieAD]

I would agree with you on the riders who routinely ride though intersections without stopping as we wait for them. In this case I thought it was a bit much to give a kid a citation for not stopping at a stop sign when I was riding on the sidewalk and made a right turn, never entering the intersection, never impeding traffic or putting myself in danger.

sorry, you're operating a vehicle on a road, you are beholden to all the rules, not just the ones you agree with. i can make a right turn without putting myself or others in danger and without stopping in my truck, doesn't mean i get to.

 

[michael_atw]

I mean, really - can't we just agree that it sucked to be that guy that day, and cops shouldn't do that kind of thing to people? What's left to be said or done?

You're supposed to take up arms. Revolution time. Let it be a confirmation bias of your presumptions about the evils of any authority figures that have and will exist in your life. Most notably, the ones that restrict you from doing whatever you want.

Overthrow the system, man.

 

[SJLee]

sorry, you're operating a vehicle on a road, you are beholden to all the rules, not just the ones you agree with. i can make a right turn without putting myself or others in danger and without stopping in my truck, doesn't mean i get to.

Technically I agree with you, but I still think the cop was looking to fill his quota. I just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. So let me ask you something. Have you never made a right turn on your bike as a kid without stopping at a stop sign, or are you one of these perfect little snowflakes that never does anything wrong?