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Don't teach this ole dog any new tricks!

T

toastw

Aug 27, 2025
305
425
Katy, TX
#1
Mostly just venting, but I bet some of you guys are in a boat like mine.

I hate "subscriptions." I like owning my software just as much as I like owning my gear. That and familiarity are two strong drivers for why I still run Pro Tools 8 at home, through a Digi 003R.

My Mac is on its last leg. The good news is: I have the CD/DVDs of both the Pro Tools software and the Snow Leopard operating system to run it on. The bad news is, it's getting harder and harder to find legacy computers to use ... and newer computers do NOT want to downgrade to old operating systems and old software. I spent HOURS last night trying to wipe the newer OS off a Macbook Pro and install my old-ass Snow Leopard on it (I eventually got it to work ... you have to jump through so many hoops like disabling the clock, telling it it's 2011, disabling the Wi-Fi so it won't have access to a working clock ...) ... and now tonight I'm gonna hafta bend over backwards to get my Pro Tools working on it. But even before that, I hafta replace the dead battery on this old laptop so it won't crap out on me running Pro Tools.

So much easier playing with vintage instruments and even vintage amps than vintage computer hardware and software.
 
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#2
toastw said:
Mostly just venting, but I bet some of you guys are in a boat like mine.

I hate "subscriptions." I like owning my software just as much as I like owning my gear. That and familiarity are two strong drivers for why I still run Pro Tools 8 at home, through a Digi 003R.

My Mac is on its last leg. The good news is: I have the CD/DVDs of both the Pro Tools software and the Snow Leopard operating system to run it on. The bad news is, it's getting harder and harder to find legacy computers to use ... and newer computers do NOT want to downgrade to old operating systems and old software. I spent HOURS last night trying to wipe the newer OS off a Macbook Pro and install my old-ass Snow Leopard on it (I eventually got it to work ... you have to jump through so many hoops like disabling the clock, telling it it's 2011, disabling the Wi-Fi so it won't have access to a working clock ...) ... and now tonight I'm gonna hafta bend over backwards to get my Pro Tools working on it. But even before that, I hafta replace the dead battery on this old laptop so it won't crap out on me running Pro Tools.

So much easier playing with vintage instruments and even vintage amps than vintage computer hardware and software.
Click to expand...
I generally agree with you, and go through a lot of the same frustration. I'm not a computer expert, but I think that computers and computing power have come down in price to the point that it opens up so much more powerful applications. When you compare early versions of DAW software with the updated or current versions, it can be like night and day, both in features and speed. For me, it's hard to go back, so I try to look ahead.

BTW, I generally love vintage guitars and basses. I generally hate vintage computers and software. Except, classic games like Tetris and Pac-Man.
 
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#3
To me the OP sounds like way more work than just incrementally learning new software. Your initial leap from Snow Leopard era software to something modern would be massive, but after that you're taking small incremental steps each generation. That's comparatively super simple and allows the freedom to use whatever hardware you want... well... not older hardware that requires 32-bit architecture, but that's easily sorted.
 
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#4
I switched to Logic after playing around with Cubase and Live. My main reasons:

1. It's made by Apple, when a new Mac OS drops it will run with very few bugs or maybe no bugs at all.

2. Apple doesn't yet charge for updates.

My total investment has only been $199, the initial purchase cost. I started with Logic 10.xxxx on a Snow Leopard machine and today I'm using Logic 12.1 on an M1 machine. I realized that when adding up all the updates from Live 7 to Live 9 I had spent abut $1000 already and every new version would cost me $250-300 which is what I think toastw is trying to avoid.
 
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#5
Subscriptions make sense if you are using it day-in-day out and the updates are useful.

I've bought a lot of Native Instruments stuff but use each component only sporadically apart from Guitar Rig so a pay per usage model would work for me and then I could download everything after upgrading my hard drive space. I have to fix a drive anyway - I have a mirrored raid but one half has died but I broke my leg and getting down to the PC to do anything about it will not happen any time soon. But I can't sit up at a desk and play for more than 20 minutes anyway at present.
 
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#7
wow. it's great, that old machine still runs fine for you.

you'll eventually have to migrate from SL when it will be dead, as there's no way, you can launch it on ARM macs. they're great, BTW. then probably you'll need to spend on a new pro tools, but that should be it.

this said, I've also recently moved to Logic and it's greater than I expected.
 
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#8
toastw said:
I like owning my software just as much as I like owning my gear.
Click to expand...
"The things you own end up owning you." - Tyler Durden
Case in point:
toastw said:
I spent HOURS last night trying to wipe the newer OS off a Macbook Pro and install my old-ass Snow Leopard on it (I eventually got it to work ... you have to jump through so many hoops like disabling the clock, telling it it's 2011, disabling the Wi-Fi so it won't have access to a working clock ...) ... and now tonight I'm gonna hafta bend over backwards to get my Pro Tools working on it. But even before that, I hafta replace the dead battery on this old laptop so it won't crap out on me running Pro Tools.
Click to expand...
@toastw, I think you're selling yourself way short here. Coming to grips with the new stuff would be child's play compared to what you're already doing in your (ultimately futile I'm afraid) effort to avoid it. Ironic that you're doing expert-level work to avoid beginner-level change.
 
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#9
silky smoove said:
To me the OP sounds like way more work than just incrementally learning new software.
Click to expand...
I'm like OP, but not because of reluctance to learn new software, but cost. Last time I upgraded pro tools, I went from 8 to 10 for free from a friend working for Avid. Because of OS/ hardware incompatibilities, free ended up costing somewhere between $1,200 and $2,000.

That was a pro tools issue. Reaper, Sonar, Audition...none cared about the hardware/OS. Unfortunately, at the time, PT was a necessary evil.
 
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#11
I don't know how I got into this, someone must have suggested it to me because I'm not a computer guy at all, but for maybe fifteen years now I have been using whatever hardware I come across loaded with Ubuntu, a linux based freeware operating system. It was super easy to learn. I only use Audacity for recording, it is also free and runs on just about anything. There was even a long stretch where I did not have internet at home (self imposed blackout, except on my phone), and everything was solid the whole time without any updates, at least six years.

I never have trouble with new hardware or peripherals like my shiny new audio interface this year. Our computer is the hub of our music, both our extensive library (in lossless flac) and weekly recording. I literally could not ask for a better setup, but I have never used any of the "pro" software so I may be in a place of not knowing what I am missing.
 
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#13
dune said:
"The things you own end up owning you." - Tyler Durden
Case in point:

@toastw, I think you're selling yourself way short here. Coming to grips with the new stuff would be child's play compared to what you're already doing in your (ultimately futile I'm afraid) effort to avoid it. Ironic that you're doing expert-level work to avoid beginner-level change.
Click to expand...
My wife and I were chatting about that last night as I told her about some of the fun I was having "upgrading" my computers. Truth of the matter is, I like maintaining my old gear. And I don't think my gear is owning me -- I would need to own a bunch of new gear if I were to modernize. And then what am I gonna do with all this old stuff (rackmounted hardware, specifically)? The hardware all performs great. And I spent a lot of time choosing what I want. It won't be compatible with a newer computer because of things like ports and 32-bit versus 64-bit architecture.

Because I own the software and the OS, I can always load them up again on another compatible PC. It's just that the supply of new-old-stock computers is dwindling. For what I'm doing, that's the only problem I run into.

Just because a monitor has 4K resolution at 144Hz refresh rate doesn't mean you need that. Same thing is true for processor speeds and a bunch of other nerdy computer specs. I don't really need to bring a nuke to a knife fight. But occasionally, I wish people still made good knives.
 
#14
I've never used Macs/ProTools. But I have two offline Windows workstations. One is Windows 7 running Sonar and some awesome old 32bit graphics programs. The other is my main recorder running Win10 and DaVinci Resolve (with a firewall tunnel to Black Magic for the periodic license check).

With that all being said, my next workstation will be a Mac Studio. I do run some Linux, but my expensive RME audio card only supports Win/Mac, so no Linux recording for me. And I'm absolutely fed up with Microsoft trying jam AI and ads down my throat, so no more Microsoft for me.

You should check out DaVinci Resolve. They have a free version that is very robust. It's aimed at video editing, but the audio section does multitrack recording very well - so well that I've adopted it as my favorite DAW. And if you try it and like it, the paid Studio version occasionally goes on sale for under $200 (think I paid $180 at B&H), and it's a lifetime purchase!
 
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#18
Well, I've yet to get a cell phone, so I guess I can relate somewhat. My computer is up to date, though.

Let me add another vote to the Reaper pile. Great software, at either $60, or free...you can basically be on trial with it indefinitely.
 

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