• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Don't Use Charts on The Gig

#101
Being a newbie in a cover band and they've been diverting/transposing/changing keys of soing since the beginning, charts/chord schemes are very useful. Of course as time progresses, the chord charts evolve into cheat sheets as muscle- and other memories kick in.
 
#105
Rayjay said:
I hate watching people read charts and or lyrics while they perform. I strive to be not that guy.
Click to expand...
When I lived in Seattle I'd watch a lot of live music at various clubs before picking my wife up at work at 11:30 on some Friday or Saturday nights. I would watch and analyze what bands were doing and the audience (as well as my) response. I used it to learn what to do and what NOT to do. It really helped a lot.

It's why I consider ANY music stands on stage to be anathema to an entertaining show.
 
#106
P. Aaron said:
A discussion in another forum got interesting when I mentioned that I don't use charts on the gig. I don't even use them at rehearsals or auditions either. A set list? Yeah.

We're talking about POP: Rock, Country, mainstream radio play covers.

My thought is, you either know the material or you don't and a chart, unless you're old school big band isn't going to help.
Click to expand...

Everybody in my band is over 45, and most of us are in our 50's, so I suppose we're "old school big band".

But for me - I don't play 10 hours a week, and don't have time to do so. I have a set list with notations about the chord sequence next to each title. That's all I need as a reminder on where to get started on each number. I may look at it again during the tune if there's a tricky change coming up. It makes a big difference to me.

A lot of the musicians I respect the most use some kind of visual reference during the gig. I respect those who use them, and those who do not.
 
#108
I feel like I'm waaaaay more in-tune with the band when I know the material and can be more reactive as we play. However I will be upfront and say that I use charts in one situation...

I strongly dislike P&W gigs for a few reasons. I really don't like doing covers, but if I do I like to change them up a bit. When I say covers, I mean bands would do things like hymns and we'd do rock versions of them, many came out pretty good. The straight-up Hillsong or Chris Tomlin stuff just puts me to sleep. A few songs like Hosanna and such had a decent bassline, but most of it gets pretty repetitive. The BLs I was with loved to change up the keys like they were swapping out chewing gum. I would have to learn the song 3 different ways and hope that he wouldn't change it again right before we play. In this situation I was guilty of using chord sheets and such, but I'd also have to practically learn the song that night.

That situation aside, I usually write stuff and would find it pretty lame if I didn't remember how to play my own tunes. I kind of like that freedom more :)
 
#109
I'm kinda shocked this is even a debate. Also I think its very crude to judge a players capability on their instrument if they use a chart or not. This obviously depends on the type of gig you are doing. When I am playing corporate / high society gigs, cocktail etc, I most certainly use charts because there are several hundreds of songs to choose from. Especially when subbing it can be a necessity as well depending on the gig.

I've done both in my experience. Just because I'm playing off a chart doesn't mean I cant play the crap out of the tune. In fact, sometimes it even opens my playing up more. You can analyze, use your ears, and feel a tune at the same time while reading. As a musician I think it's important to be able to do this to help you get a better understanding of the tunes, and it opens you up to a lot more work with other people. It provides you with the ability to walk into most gigs and play the tunes on the spot, even without even knowing them. But hey, different strokes for different folks.

I have also done gigs where I don't use charts as well (original bands, some cover gigs, jams, etc). Just because I didn't use a chart on those gigs doesn't mean I played any better on those gigs. This doesn't make any sense to me. Hopefully all of you here can read a chart, or at least understand the ability to read through chord changes and recognize song structure. It is a invaluable asset to have in your musical arsenal. Of course there are those few that have "HUGE EARS" and can sit in on any gig and just play by listening with no ability to read at all. Those are some very special people.

To me the most important part about playing well on a gig is to be confident in your ability, be prompt, have good sounding reliable gear, but most of all, listen to your bandmates as they play. Whether I'm reading or not, all those other things are way more important for me to have a successful gig. Getting a feel for the drummer, and the rest of the band, know your place and don't step on anyone, and know when to poke through. These abilities you should be able to do whether you are reading or not.

Just to be clear I'm no theory genius and I never took lessons. I am self taught and consider myself a solid bass player, nothing special. But I learned some theory in order to stay working, I had to work on my musicianship such as; singing background, learning to read charts, etc. This made me more attractive and got me more bookings. This was a big step and learning experience for me.

Anyhow I know I strayed a bit here, but I think it's foolish to judge a musician's potential playing ability on a gig whether they use charts or not. If you can do your gig without charts, great! If not, still great! Just as long as you cover your gig to the best of your ability and enjoy the music. Isn't that what its all about anyway? My two long cents...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Howlin' Hanson, Imaginary Pony and neal davis
#115
I just took a pickup gig with two weeks notice just recently. Asked for a set list before i took the gig, 40 new tunes that I haven't played before (just relocated to a heavy classic country area) So you can bet I am bringing charts but on my Ipad. None of its that hard, but between work and other things going on in life I won't have to time to really lock in and memorize all the tunes, Rather be over prepared and not need them, then need them and not have them. Gig pays well also...

Then there is the blues gig I play where the guy writes songs on the fly at the gig sometimes. No charts for that one cause there is no way to prepare in advance (those don't pay quite as well)

All depends on the notice and situation the band leader/group is seeking. I won't commit to the gig without telling the band leader that I expect to use charts and get their approval on it (dependant on what i know off their set list). I would probably pass on the gig if charts weren't approved. My reputation is on the line as much as the band, and If I don't deliver a good product, then the band doesn't, Cause we all know bass is the most important instrument in the band ; )

I played long term with a few original bands and typical top 40 cover bands and had the tunes memorized well before we played out because usually i was involved from start up. Its the fill in gigs for me where the charts come into play.
 
#116
it depends.
These days I primarily play in 3 mostly original bands where the cover content is right around 5% of the total material.

Jazz/Fusion/World Music - Americana/Roots/Pop - Blues Rock power trio. Each band has at least 100 tunes (Jazz/World Music band has over 120).

I sight read, and chord charts are the usual route. The Americana band uses the Nashville number system because the primary songwriter has that kind of background and she will change keys on the stand from time to time ( o_O ... singers, whatta-ya gonna do ??)
I chart the tunes for the whole band when they are new, and for those that are dead simple 3 chord tunes (very few) we get off book very quickly (1-2 rehearsals)
None of the bands puts charts on the stand, we rehearse tunes until they can be done off book. I tend to agree that music stands on a gig can be a poor visual (but IMO it's not a sin or sign of unprofessional-ism or anything like that.)

Also, as a long time player (45 years) who is getting older (58), with lots of different music going on in my life constantly, I will often mark my set lists (which are usually taped on the floor by my mic stand) with the key of each tune and the opening chord, just to help my aging memory out a bit.

OTOH, as some have said, for a pick-up Jazz gig, Big Band, or a casuals gig where the BL might have 500+ tunes to call, it's almost mandatory to have charts available or you can find yourself in a very unfortunate situation. So, on those gigs, I welcome a well organized book.
 
#117
I agree that having your head in the page often takes away from the performance. I don't like seeing bands with charts. Although, knowledge is power and everyone should learn to read. It's not hard, and you don't want to short-change your potential gigs, or the learning possibilities that reading give you.. . . Be able to read, but don't do it on your gig, if you can help it. :bassist:
 
#118
All the pros I've seen reading sound great! Keith Carlock reads on most gigs, doesn't take away from the performance at all. Now if you are talking about "musical entertainment" then yeah those guys should not be reading from charts. Just like wrestlers shouldn't be reading from the queues discussed before the match. They should just "wrasle" or whatever.
 
#120
joebar said:
I think that the larger the ensemble, the less chance you have of everyone hitting their cues all the time.
I saw a steely dan tribute once and there were ten people on the stage. many were charting.
Click to expand...

I just couldn't resist, sorry @joebar.

"I saw a steely dan tribute once and there were ten people on the stage. many were sharting."

That's how I read it a moment ago, thank odin I wasn't drinking coffee.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Howlin' Hanson, BioWeapon, joebar and 2 others

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back