Double Bass Sound

[René_Julien]

Exactly. Part of my problem is that I've been playing 5-6 string basses too long and it doesn't help that I can fit 2 electric basses in less space. I haven't ruled out an EUB 6 string like the NS, but many tell me that I probably wouldn't get much benefit over the Rob Allen bass.

Anyway, back to the amps, sure, a 15" will do, but what about high end? Part of the benefit of a nice bi-amped rig is that you can capture some nice full low end and still have plenty of high end for other basses. I consider myself really lucky that I was able to throw my Ampeg rig together, barely touch the knobs, and get the tone I really wanted without any effort.

I'm full of misassumptions.
After nine years of bass I still don't know much about all the gear. (a reason why I recently joined talkbass, great exchange of ideas and experiences)

If it was metal: no problem, then I know what is best suitable for the job (for me).

But now for jazz, to get the warmest sound possible, I am clueless.

Sorry, didn't want to hijack this thread.
If I have amp questions I'll go to the amp forum.

 

[Guest043]

Then you've never spent any significant time playing DB. It's like trying to get a steel string acoustic guitar to sound like a classical guitar.

+1000000000.

but if you just want to get close, i'd pluck up near the neck on any fretless, through an amp thats upright appropriate (EA, acoustic immage, markbass).

another awesome alternative is an ashbory bass. i used to have one, they sound delightfull, and believe it or not VERY high quality. theyre somewhere around $200, too. used to be my travel bass, untill i got sick of those rubber strings getting melted when i would leave it in the car..

 

[Michael Case]

If the mix is done right, it works just fine. I've been to shows where my MB2 sounded better than an upright that was coming through the PA. It's not a replacement, but a convenient alternative.

Well, most of the time a double bass running through a PA is an awful sound. Most amplification kills the DB tone at high levels. I personally DON'T believe one can achieve a DB type tone with an electric, they are completely different tone wise. An alternative, yes I believe it can be an alternative, but you have accept the tone for what it is and make it work in the context. An electric bass will always sound like an electric bass. Just get a tone you enjoy and works for your group and play, don't drive yourself crazy trying to get a DB tone.

If you want the tone enough, you could always buy a DB and learn to play it. That's what I did, you'll also be able to take more calls as a doubler.

 

[ryco]

A Gibson? Which one?
I have owned a SG Reissue, a RD Artist, a G3 and a Ripper and would never consider one of them to be a bass to replicate a stand up bass. Even with flats.
If it works for you, great! Just my $0.02 bast on my experiences.
I agree with the Rob Allen posters. A fretless Rob Allen with tapewounds is as close to a standup as I have heard from an electric bass.

I use a fretless '77 Ripper and have been since......oh,'77
It does not exactly replicate a DB. If I wanted an exact replica I'd grab a DB.
I thought the poster wanted to know now to get a replica of the sound - so I told him how I do it wit' what I got. YMMV
I find a lot of the sound is actually in the fingers and was hoping to explain how to roll off the string with the meat of the fingers, much as a DB player does.
I've never heard a Rob Allen. Will have to check it out.

peas

 

[Baird6869]

See? We can all post like this without attacking each other.

I am a big Gibson fan but seriously, the Rob Allen basses with tapewound strings and piezo sound a lot like a standup.

This is the bass I tried.....

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I use a fretless '77 Ripper and have been since......oh,'77
It does not exactly replicate a DB. If I wanted an exact replica I'd grab a DB.
I thought the poster wanted to know now to get a replica of the sound - so I told him how I do it wit' what I got. YMMV
I find a lot of the sound is actually in the fingers and was hoping to explain how to roll off the string with the meat of the fingers, much as a DB player does.
I've never heard a Rob Allen. Will have to check it out.

peas

 

[spade2you]

If you want the tone enough, you could always buy a DB and learn to play it. That's what I did, you'll also be able to take more calls as a doubler.

That is one possibility. That's about the only gig I haven't touched (other than country) and haven't gotten tired of dealing with musician meltdowns, but that's another story for another day.

 

[Michael Case]

It's a really good experience, learning the double bass opened up my electric playing. Plus it is one more sound I'm able to make.

 

[Tom7]

Rob Allen or Wendler Electrocoustic will do a nice job.

Rob Allen bass played on youtube video:

, so you can hear its tone in a trio setting.

I can appreciate what those guys are saying that insist there is nothing like playing an actual double bass, and I agree. I play it too, but the DB really does have its draw backs both in traveling and in performing.

There are legit reasons for looking for similar sounding alternatives, and we shouldn't be quick to snub these alternatives.

 

[Yvon]

THIS is the bass I would like for Christmas!

http://www.mf.qc.ca/

 

[Tom7]

http://www.mf.qc.ca/

THANK YOU! Now if you could just help me come up with helpful hints to let my wife know... Seriously, thanks.

 

[CraigG]

Just buy an upright and expand your value as a bass player. They're a lot of fun.

 

[Bassamatic]

Why don't I see the Ashbory Bass mentioned here? Because it is small and low cost? They are amazing.
You can hear it here:


Also - How about the Rotosound TruBass strings? They are said to give the best DB sound on fretless basses.

 

[Tom7]

Why don't I see the Ashbory Bass mentioned here? Because it is small and low cost? They are amazing.
You can hear it here:

That's interesting. There WAS a post that mentioned the Ashbury, and how the poster sold his because the strings melted when he left it in a hot car.

Maybe I'm going crazy or saw it somewhere else within the last hour or so.

Anyway, another string recommendation would be Thomastik Infeld Jazz bass flatwounds.

 

[Rick Auricchio]

I often have better luck on a fretted bass rather than fretless. I mute the string with the adjacent left-hand finger, a bit higher up the neck where it's fretted. So it's two fingers on the string: one frets, the other lightly mutes.

My Dave Maize fretless ABG is quite good, however, and I've gotten an acceptable approximation with the Lightwave and its TI flats.

Disclaimer: I'm not an upright player, and we're playing for an audience that's easily convinced.

 

[Funk 'N' Stein]

Not sure if my $0.02 will contribute to the thread at all, but there are really only 4 bass tones that I'm really passionate about.

P Bass
J Bass
SR 4 (yeah generally the old 2 band)

and

The upright.

As primarily a soul / rock player who dabbles in jazz, I am completely enamoured of the sound of the big bass.

However the sound, as it comes across in recordings and on live gigs, can vary tremendously, from a thick, lush, pillowy, swelling sound, to thin whiney and clacky.

While the generic tonal qualities are there, the differences in sound i.e. timbre "woodyness" whatever you like to call it, may often vary almost as much as would, say, those of the electric bass.

The fact that it is an acoustic, very visually captivating instrument, then becomes almost secondary and it can end up sounding just like an electric bass in the mix anyway (IMO).

I dont think you can beat the intrinsic sound of a well amplified double bass and I rue the day that i didnt learn double bass, but i'm afraid the difficulties that life presents preclude any opportunities for me to learn DB at this stage.

Having said all that.... do i think it is essential for jazz...well no. The electric can sound great in jazz, as long as the sound is 'authentic'...'fat', 'pillowy', 'woody', slight 'mwah'...call it what you like .

Although Jaco was (and still is) often derided for his signature tone being too thin, I think his fretless tone, especially on the joni mitchell stuff and in particular 'The birthday concert" is still the best electric bass tone in a jazz context...period. VERY authentic tone which completely and utterly enhanced the music (of course the maestro himself had a lot to do with that!).

My own experience with the electric in jazz?....Ive used fretted MMSR 4 and fretted Fender jazz basses. Both are excellent for jazz, but 12 months ago I invested in a MM SR 4 H fretless with piezo in an effort to get a sound that was in the DB ballpark. I run it with TI flats and use the piezo quite a bit. It sounds magnificent and provides a very authentic 'jazz tonality' as well as being super versatile. It is a KILLER axe for jazz (and reggae.!!)

Make sense??....I think i got there in a round about sort of way!!!

 

[richnota]

Of the whole piezo posse, the Rob Allen mouse with tapes is the most "DB-ish." IMO it sounds more "upright" than my Kydd EUB (in my hands).

A lot of the DB-ishness is going to come from your style. I recently recorded the mouse and went for a much more electric sound.

Never really replace the DB but it will capture a lot of upright character.

For amps I like using very "hi fi" amps....Acoustic Image or EA with Accugroove or Bergantino cabinets.

 

[Funk 'N' Stein]

Of the whole piezo posse, the Rob Allen mouse with tapes is the most "DB-ish." IMO it sounds more "upright" than my Kydd EUB (in my hands).

A lot of the DB-ishness is going to come from your style. I recently recorded the mouse and went for a much more electric sound.

Never really replace the DB but it will capture a lot of upright character.

For amps I like using very "hi fi" amps....Acoustic Image or EA with Accugroove or Bergantino cabinets.

Congratulations on a superb collection of beautiful instruments man

 

[Marcury]

My experience is that nothing sounds like a DB, but a DB but the RoB Allen gives a nice woody tone with some real thump particularly played over the neck.

I use a MarkBass MINI CMD 121P which gets me as close as I think I'll ever get when I want that tone, but gives me a lot of other options too and reproduces the sound of the instrument and all it's nuances beautifully.

As for amplification, anything capable of deep low end is fine. I use a bi-amped Ampeg SVT4Pro to a 4x10 and 15".

I know that your not going for the DB sound most of the time, but that rig sounds like it takes up as much or more space than a DB and weighs twice as much.

 

[DanielleMuscato]

Whats the best way to go about achieving a tone similar to that of a double bass on an electric bass?

The only way to get an upright tone is to play an upright. If that were possible, I think we'd see a lot fewer uprights out there, just because they are so impractical as far as travel, amplification, etc.

That said, the best way to get a *similar* tone is with a Line6 Variax. Rob Allen, Godin A4 (although both higher quality instruments - Line6 is made in Korea by Samick) etc don't even come close. Click the link, and then the second-from-the-bottom link on the right, where it says "Acoustic," with the red dot next to it.

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Also, the first bit of the last clip here (click where it says "Three in One"):

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There is nothing closer to an upright pizzicato tone in a BG format, in my experience.

 

[lburton2]

to be honest.. the easiest way I find to get a great upright sound on electric (fretless or not) is to play with your thumb while partially palm muting w/ your right hand. it's a bit tricky but you get that thump and small resonance like an upright.. balanced with the right EQ and flatwounds.. it's a GREAT upright sound. Good if you want the Baby Bass sound for Latin music also.