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Double Bass Sound

#61
Thanks for an interesting thread. Although I don't ever try to get a DB sound, I do love to hear it.

My tuppenceworth x 2

On Lou Reed's Walk on the Wild Side, I believed it was a double bass until I read an interview with Herbie Flowers who said he'd used a Fender Jazz - anyone confirm this ?

I used to go to watch a Jazz Trio in Edinburgh's Tiles Bar (the guitarist used a Gibson Super 400 and was mortified when I asked him if it was a J175!). Anyway, one night when I went in, before I could see the stage, I thought that they'd got in an electric player. To my amazement, it was a different bassist still using a DB, but the tones he wrung out were very much "electric". He wasn't using any amping (that I could see) but his tone was way different from normal upright. He was very agressive with lots of highs and what I can only describe as fretbuzz on the low notes. Only saw him the once - shame though.
 
#62
Yvon said:
cheaper then the rob allen..

Godin


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+1, another +1 for 15's - makes a huge difference.
 
#64
fish slapper said:
Interesting thread. Here's my take. I've just gone through the same quest. I actually own and play a DB and am having ergonomic issues with vertical bass so I've been exploring a BG substitute. To my ears listening to all the samples online and what I've been able to audition the Rob Allen mouse is the closest you can get. Sort of defies the laws of physics that a 30 inch scale BG best mimics a 41 inch scale 3/4 upright.

Now to the larger question: do you really want to "sound exactly like an upright." To my ears, the DB sounds the most DB when its not amplified at all or slightly helped. Frankly, with most drummers I jam with, this isn't possible. Therefore, I end up cranking the amp and get into piezo "honk."

In moving back to BG for Jazz, I've been using a Warmoth J fret-less I cobbled together and have noticed that not only is it more comfortable to play but is more defined and is easier to hear in the band mix. No, I can't get that DB "DOM" envelope but with flat wounds, high action, right hand technique and position, and pickup selection, it is very "natural" sounding. But in many ways it has better definition than DB.

On a final note, let me say that every time I show up to a gig or a new jam with the BG, I see the look of disappointment in the eyes of the other players but more importantly at a gig, the audience. There is a great perception in Jazz these days that if you're not playing DB, its not "real" Jazz. In fact, I'm convinced that I get called for gigs because I do play DB. The audience doesn't know anything about "band mix" and really doesn't care if my shoulder and back aches after playing for two hours. It is after all show business. They hire a live band because they want the "look" of a Jazz combo as well as the sound. Otherwise, they'd just put in a CD.

So for my gig this coming up weekend, I'm doing my stretches working on my arm positioning and sucking it up and taking the doghouse.:bawl:
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+1

I just wanted to give this a big +1 to help people notice how GREAT these comments are.

Nearly always, what is wanted isn't a perfect DB knock off tone, but a good tone that fits in with a certain style of play -- visually as well as sonically.

That being the case, I simplified my life a bit by getting a Barker Vertical Bass. Every time I gig with my Barker, I get compliments... first on how cool it looks, then on how it sounds. It has acoustic chambers, and with Thomastik flats, it sounds about as close to DB as a bass without piezo pickups can, but it doesn't have the drawbacks of a DB such as travel, amplification and space hassles.

It's not perfect though, just an acceptable compromise of look, tone and convenience. Check out Andrew Pfaff in this YouTube clip to see what I mean.

And here's a photo of my Barker.

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On the other hand, if the look isn't expected, I have another bass (an Fbass AC6) with acoustic chambers, piezo pickups, and with Thomastik flats, that sounds more upright-y, and is a real joy to play.

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I guess I'm saying it is one thing to try to get a near perfect DB sound from a BG, and it is another thing entirely to do something with electric basses that fit the desired look and sound of the gig.The "right" way depends on what your overall aim is I guess.
 
#67
the Ashbory gets as close as any I recon.
A good acoustic bass guitar will probably get reasonably close as well.

Nothing will sound like an upright really.
hotwire tried, kristallbass are trying, the mouse is another attempt I guess, Some consider the Fbasses with hollow body and no frets a decent alternative amongst a good number of others.

Still an electric bass guitar is no upright and will not sound like one.

Get an upright.
 
#69
Amplified DB-like sound you can get with a BG no prob. Get a piezo bridge and a P style neck pickup, pluck over the fingerboard and lift the fretting fingers off the note a little.

If you are trying to cop an acoustic DB sound out of the BG, it ain't gonna happen. DB isn't just undefined thump, mine gets nice sustain though the attack/decay characteristics are much different than electric.

Unless you play both like I do though you may not care and the audience probably won't either.

Truly IMO nothing sounds like a nice DB and sometimes the music just calls for it and no substitutions. However, there's no denying the gigging convenience of being 'close enough' with a BG, especially if you are doing typical cover sets where you need a BG anyway.

'Course if you got the balls you could always show up to a rock/cover gig with just a DB, and tell the sound man to mic it, I know some guys here do that.
 
#70
cnltb said:
... hotwire tried, ....
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I'd say Hotwire succeeded.

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Great thread. A big +1 from me regarding the comments about the actual look being important - I'd say more important than the sound, really. In that light, if Barker had something like a scroll headstock I'd consider one. One local blues guy just affixes his Jazz bass via bungee cords to a modified crutch and uses that as his "upright".

I say this because I am also in agreement with the comments about playing upright-like lines if you want it to sound like an upright. IMO, it's the lines and the music they're part of that makes it sound like an upright as much as anything else. Palm muting goes a long way too, especially on a fretless with flats EQ'd correctly, IME.

Those Rob Allens sound great, but it'd be nice if they just came in black. The fancy woods aren't my thing visually, and getting back to the image thing I think basic black, brown, or even sunburst would sit much better in the visual mix if trying to substitute for an upright.

It'd be nice if MF Luthierie had prices on their site. Anyone know offhand what those go for? Some awesome-looking basses on that site.
 
#71
the Rob allen does good enough. If you REALLY spent a lot of time and care about it, you could get almost all the way to the UB sound if your upright was plugged in. I had an acoustic electric by a guy in Spain , bass was called Marco, and it got even closer. A TBer is sporting it now, forgot his screen name, but it would be interesting to hear his thoughts on it.

Thing about the Rob Allen that you'll have to spend time with in order to make it sound convincing, besides tone, is the technique. It's too easy to play my Rob Allen whereas I have to work a bit to get the notes out of my upright, so then you aren't getting the same attack. Or course, this would be a similar problem on any ax, and I have NO idea how to adjust my Rob Allen.

So THAT SAID, do flats on a precision bass and jack the action up and roll the tone back.
 
#74
Michael Case said:
A person can go crazy, waste a lot of time and money trying to get a DB sound from an electric and the kick in the ass is you'll never get it. They are different animals when it comes to timbre, just get a suitable sound on the electric and learn to PLAY jazz well. Those raised eyebrows will slowly go down when you're swinging away on the electric.
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That's actually very good advice. :)

I still want a Rob Allen though. :hmm:;)
 
#76
SMASH said:
I'd say Hotwire succeeded.

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Great thread. A big +1 from me regarding the comments about the actual look being important - I'd say more important than the sound, really. In that light, if Barker had something like a scroll headstock I'd consider one. One local blues guy just affixes his Jazz bass via bungee cords to a modified crutch and uses that as his "upright".

I say this because I am also in agreement with the comments about playing upright-like lines if you want it to sound like an upright. IMO, it's the lines and the music they're part of that makes it sound like an upright as much as anything else. Palm muting goes a long way too, especially on a fretless with flats EQ'd correctly, IME.

Those Rob Allens sound great, but it'd be nice if they just came in black. The fancy woods aren't my thing visually, and getting back to the image thing I think basic black, brown, or even sunburst would sit much better in the visual mix if trying to substitute for an upright.

It'd be nice if MF Luthierie had prices on their site. Anyone know offhand what those go for? Some awesome-looking basses on that site.
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I must say ...that mp3 is not bad at all!!
 
#77
lamarjones said:
the Rob allen does good enough. If you REALLY spent a lot of time and care about it, you could get almost all the way to the UB sound if your upright was plugged in.
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Bingo! On some occasions, I've felt that my MB2 and Mouse 30 sounded about on par with an upright, a few times I thought mine sounded better. Although when I saw Return To Forever a few weeks back, the soundman knew how to do it right and Stanley Clarke IS the man, so it sounded better than any upright, EUB, piezo bass, plugged in or acoustically.
 
#78
spade2you said:
Bingo! On some occasions, I've felt that my MB2 and Mouse 30 sounded about on par with an upright, a few times I thought mine sounded better. Although when I saw Return To Forever a few weeks back, the soundman knew how to do it right and Stanley Clarke IS the man, so it sounded better than any upright, EUB, piezo bass, plugged in or acoustically.
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That's interesting, when I saw him in Houston he had the full on double bass an an Alembic (I think) for BG. His sound for both was great but I liked the DB playing more, probably 'cause he did a 20 minute solo with it.
 
#79
bkbirge said:
That's interesting, when I saw him in Houston he had the full on double bass an an Alembic (I think) for BG. His sound for both was great but I liked the DB playing more, probably 'cause he did a 20 minute solo with it.
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Yup. Probably the most jaw dropping concert I've ever seen. The hall they played has killer sound and the soundman did a phenominal job. I've never heard an upright sound so good at a volume like that.
 

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