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Double booking...

The way I do thing is, I do not take on members who are committed to other bands. This is my policy and it works for me
I need commit and I sure as hell don't have time for head games. You are all in or your not. Our members have a schedule of dates they are unavailable for, be it Family Birthday's Wedding Anniversaries, Vacations whatever and we are on top of this. So when we submit our availability to the agency and when the agent says we have a show for such and such a date, the topic turns to how much $ you talking not let me call everyone to see if they have another gig with their other band. RTS
 
The way I do thing is, I do not take on members who are committed to other bands. This is my policy and it works for me
I need commit and I sure as hell don't have time for head games. You are all in or your not. Our members have a schedule of dates they are unavailable for, be it Family Birthday's Wedding Anniversaries, Vacations whatever and we are on top of this. So when we submit our availability to the agency and when the agent says we have a show for such and such a date, the topic turns to how much $ you talking not let me call everyone to see if they have another gig with their other band. RTS
You can do that IF you're providing enough gigs and income to require exclusivity to make it fly. Otherwise there is no standing to do so. Period.
 
I play in a group with guys playing in different bands. The rule is first booked gig gets the musician. If you are asked if available we need an answer within 24 hrs at the latest.
On another note:
We once booked a high value gig in a restaurant/bar for $100/per person. Why? it was a great venue, nice owners and staff,, they booked us regularly and treated us with respect. Later we were offered $350 per for the same night. Big corporate gig. I said no but everyone else wanted the "Big Bucks" I told them an extra $250 wasn't worth it in the long run, but (I'm ashamed to say) that I would go along with what ever the the group decided. They went with the money and I regret it every time I think about it.
 
You can do that IF you're providing enough gigs and income to require exclusivity to make it fly. Otherwise there is no standing to do so. Period.
My band started in 2003 has been on the NJ scene since 2005 one member passed the other retired 3 founding members left. I added to two members under my terms, again this works for me.
 
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I got fed up with band members holding my band hostage and impeding our opportunities to perform and progress. I got sick of scrambling for subs and going out short-handed because someone wasn't feeling like being in my band that weekend. I started to look around me, and lo and behold the best bands in town, with whom I am competing for gigs and stages, don't operate that way. It's the same five people every rehearsal, every show, and they are out on a stage 4 times a month minimum because they are in demand. They are all on the same page with work ethic, image and direction, availability, motivation, commitment, and sacrifice, and they all share the substantial rewards. They get incredibly tight and their stage show shines. That's the only way I'll ever run or join another band.

I wanted it to be this way, but I haven't been able to make it work. Instead, I have a bunch of people I just call when I have a gig. They all know most of the repertoire by now, and if they don't, I get them there a bit early and we go over a few trouble spots in the tunes beforehand. They caused this, not me, by joining a buzillion different bands to fill their schedule. So, if there is no loyalty to me, there is no loyalty to them.
 
Things have changed a lot since I first started. Back in the stone age, we all formed bands and played together and booked shows and there was really never a question as to who was going to be there because we always worked together. Bigger acts would come through and pick up players who could sight read for their shows, usually through the union, but bar bands were usually a unit that didn't change.

Nowadays we're all subbing here and there. So I have a policy that whatever hits my calendar first is set in stone. This has bothered exactly one bandleader who wanted me to "hold" dates that he couldn't confirm, but it is not fair to everyone else I work with for me to do that, so I refuse to do it. Everyone else I work with seems to be able to follow the pattern of asking about availability and then confirming the date quickly if all are available.

I would be really upset if someone I was working with pulled the kind of stuff the OP mentioned.
 
15 years in one band and aren't allowed to be in another band? sounds horrible. I'd retire too
He retired because he lost his teenage son to cancer or he would be still playing in our band because we are a family and treat each other like brothers
to be in our band is not a horrible thing it is a joy, we love to play together we have magic on stage, if it was horrible it wouldn't have lasted as long as it has. It is a labor of love and the two new guys are excited to be part of it. My singer has been following the band for years and has always dream of someday fronting this band, He chose the stage name Tommy Dreamur, because this is his dream come true. Yeah we run a tight ship and keep the business end all business because we built something that is respected and we are all committed to giving our all as performers.
 
Wow, so many indiscretions in this OP. In my book, chronology trumps dollar amount. But that’s just the beginning of this guy’s ethical infractions.
  • If you commit to a job on a certain date and time, you shouldn’t change your mind later. It’s obvious to everyone you got a higher paying gig elsewhere, and are a DBag.
  • If you do back out of a commitment, leaving your whole band in the lurch, you have no right to complain about your band searching for a sub.
  • If you ever have to cancel a commitment (for right or wrong reasons) you should have a suitable replacement already lined up.
 
I wanted it to be this way, but I haven't been able to make it work. Instead, I have a bunch of people I just call when I have a gig. They all know most of the repertoire by now, and if they don't, I get them there a bit early and we go over a few trouble spots in the tunes beforehand. They caused this, not me, by joining a buzillion different bands to fill their schedule. So, if there is no loyalty to me, there is no loyalty to them.

All I know is, hands down, the tightest most in-demand bands in my neighborhood, impressive in the eyes of other musicians, clients, and audiences alike, are almost all made up of like-minded individuals who have the same availability and allegiance to one band. The same musicians rehearsing regularly and performing regularly intuitively equals a relatively much tighter band than any line-up relying on subs and fill-ins I've ever heard in 40 years.

I understand it's probably not the most common approach, because finding five or six people who share all those values is like a planetary alignment, but the results can't be disputed.

And for this band manager, the administrative and logistical challenges of playing musician roulette were just too much work. I know plenty of subs for all positions, but they never matched my first line. There was always some kind of compromise, a disruptive component, involved with things like song selection, preparedness, stage presence, etc. Those sub and short-handed line-ups didn't suck, but they were noticeably inferior, and it was sometimes obvious to talent buyers. A few times I've had talent buyers and clients ask me where my regular band member was, and that the band sounded much better with them than without.

I hate to take this stance, but since I, like most weekend warriors, aren't paying the rent or my kid's orthodontist bills with the money I make on the weekends, it's just not worth it. Considering how much time and money I invest, I'm not making any money at all, so it's a matter of pride for me. I bust my ass for my band, doing the vast majority of the work including booking all gigs, but if I can't take my best product out regularly, the one that I am most proud of, that makes the best impression, and that gets me the most repeat business with quality gigs, it's not worth it to me.

I think there are many great musicians out there who could be satisfied making one band the priority, if that band stays busy and provides rewarding opportunities, but the hired gun mentality is pretty popular. You have to shuffle a lot of players in and out to finally hit that magic chemistry of dedicated skilled players. I wasn't able to do it, and called it quits after three years. Maybe if I'd hung in there a little longer and rotated some more musicians, but at 60 years old I think it has run its course.

EDIT: Directly back to the OP, one thing that really burned me up is having to compete with other bands for the availability of my musicians and whether or not I can book a gig with my best line-up or be forced to scrounge up a sub or go short-handed. It's patently insulting. It's hard enough to get six people in the same place at once, and get them on board with the business model and goals of the band, and there are plenty of other distractions like job, family, kids, wife, illness, travel, the list goes on and on and on. You have to make allowances for the legitimate stuff, but if someone isn't all that interested in being an entertainer and can't make it a priority on the weekends, and if someone thinks in their little fickle rock star mind they are a hot commodity and reserve the right to spread their massive talent all over town playing in multiple bands, they are useless to me.

I know some band leaders are cool with it, and even allow certain band members to hold the band calendar hostage and dictate the gig schedule. But that never worked for me, and I have many examples of successful bands in town where it would not work for them either.
 
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I feel you were obligated to the clown that you would have to look for a sub. My conversation would have something like this: Because you backed out of a commitment we have to audition subs and for your replacement, it is too bad really as we worked well together. Best of luck in your future endeavors, have your people call my people and we will do lunch.

As with any dismissal, do it standing up so as not to invite a conversation.
 
All I know is, hands down, the tightest most in-demand bands in my neighborhood, impressive in the eyes of other musicians, clients, and audiences alike, are almost all made up of like-minded individuals who have the same availability and allegiance to one band. The same musicians rehearsing regularly and performing regularly intuitively equals a relatively much tighter band than any line-up relying on subs and fill-ins I've ever heard in 40 years.

I understand it's probably not the most common approach, because finding five or six people who share all those values is like a planetary alignment, but the results can't be disputed.

In the last couple months I've grown really weary of the musician roulette game too. I did about six weeks of strange requests from clients, and while we made it work, it was stressful. When I have a gig that is just a real book standards gig with all the people I normally work with, it's SO less stressful. Started envying A-listers who can just play the same 1.5 hours for crowds on a 40 venue tour.

But again, the musicians made me this way. There's no loyalty in our town.
 
In the last couple months I've grown really weary of the musician roulette game too. I did about six weeks of strange requests from clients, and while we made it work, it was stressful. When I have a gig that is just a real book standards gig with all the people I normally work with, it's SO less stressful. Started envying A-listers who can just play the same 1.5 hours for crowds on a 40 venue tour.

But again, the musicians made me this way. There's no loyalty in our town.

You have a bit of an advantage when you use real books and charts and work with musicians who are appropriately skilled and understand how to use them. Rotating players in and out might be a little easier in those situations.

My experience has been entirely with mainstream pop/rock/disco/funk/variety party bands, and no one is using sheet music outside a few notes scribbled on paper or a tablet. We also play to about 25 tracks to thicken the horns. We have a number of specific arrangements, medleys, segues, etc. I think the more specific and demanding the production, the more difficult it is to get the same effect with fill-ins. And most of them don't want to rehearse the show.

So yeah, I understand that you are adapting to the musicians rather than the other way around, which still strikes me as counter-intuitive. You are more patient than I.
 
So yeah, I understand that you are adapting to the musicians rather than the other way around, which still strikes me as counter-intuitive. You are more patient than I.

Actually, I adapted to the musicians (stopped relying on a single set of musicians) to the point they all adapt to me now. When you are a new comer, there isn't time to assert your way on an existing band.

But believe me, I'm losing the patience. I lost about $1200 worth of revenue from a big client for Christmas jazz this year, and I'm not caring. I think someone scooped the gig. Enjoying the break.

The thing that gets me is rehearsal. The rock musicians I play with (not all rock musicians, I am sure)have to be among the worst in terms of efficient rehearsal. We can run through 10-15 hard songs in a 2 to 3 hour rehearsal with the jazz musicians I play with -- when we have a rock gig. The rock musicians seem to want to negotiate the song structure. Throw in a singer who has their own conception of how the song goes -- there is massive miscommunication about how the song goes -- with one person referring to this section over here and other people think s/he means a different section. You do it three times and its only through people making mistakes that true communication happens. Eventually someone accidentally gets it right and then that's the way you play it. And of course, what was decided is forgotten next rehearsal. I had enough of that and use jazz musicians exclusively for all the rock gigs.

Before my streamlined approach, when someone is not available for a gig you have to sub the new person and it's an act of congress to communicate song structure.

I have started a chord chart now for vocal songs and I insist everyone plays off the chart even if they would like to tinker, just so we can get on with the show.
 
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Actually, I adapted to the musicians (stopped relying on a single set of musicians) to the point they all adapt to me now. When you are a new comer, there isn't time to assert your way on an existing band.

But believe me, I'm losing the patience. I lost about $1200 worth of revenue from a big client for Christmas jazz this year, and I'm not caring. I think someone scooped the gig. Enjoying the break.

The thing that gets me is rehearsal. The rock musicians I play with (not all rock musicians, I am sure)have to be among the worst in terms of efficient rehearsal. We can run through 10-15 hard songs in a 2 to 3 hour rehearsal with the jazz musicians I play with -- when we have a rock gig. The rock musicians seem to want to negotiate the song structure. Throw in a singer who has their own conception of how the song goes -- there is massive miscommunication about how the song goes -- with one person referring to this section over here and other people think s/he means a different section. You do it three times and its only through people making mistakes that true communication happens. Eventually someone accidentally gets it right and then that's the way you play it. And of course, what was decided is forgotten next rehearsal. I had enough of that and use jazz musicians exclusively for all the rock gigs.

Then someone is not available for a gig so you have to sub the new person and it's an act of congress to communicate song structure.

I have started a chord chart now for vocal songs and I insist everyone plays off the chart even if they would like to tinker, just so we can get on with the show.

Consistent arrangements, ugh. Another kettle of fish, but closely related to the important concept of continuity expressed in this thread. The more continuity and consistency you have, the better the band sounds and the easier it is on the band manager/music director. The less you have, the more unpredictable and stressful.

Seems like Band 101 stuff, but it's not always that simple in the real world.
 
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Actually, I adapted to the musicians (stopped relying on a single set of musicians) to the point they all adapt to me now. When you are a new comer, there isn't time to assert your way on an existing band.

But believe me, I'm losing the patience. I lost about $1200 worth of revenue from a big client for Christmas jazz this year, and I'm not caring. I think someone scooped the gig. Enjoying the break.

The thing that gets me is rehearsal. The rock musicians I play with (not all rock musicians, I am sure)have to be among the worst in terms of efficient rehearsal. We can run through 10-15 hard songs in a 2 to 3 hour rehearsal with the jazz musicians I play with -- when we have a rock gig. The rock musicians seem to want to negotiate the song structure. Throw in a singer who has their own conception of how the song goes -- there is massive miscommunication about how the song goes -- with one person referring to this section over here and other people think s/he means a different section. You do it three times and its only through people making mistakes that true communication happens. Eventually someone accidentally gets it right and then that's the way you play it. And of course, what was decided is forgotten next rehearsal. I had enough of that and use jazz musicians exclusively for all the rock gigs.

Then someone is not available for a gig so you have to sub the new person and it's an act of congress to communicate song structure.

I have started a chord chart now for vocal songs and I insist everyone plays off the chart even if they would like to tinker, just so we can get on with the show.
You're right, it's not all rock musicians, but this phenomenon is more rampant in rock/pop/country than you'll find in jazz. Most jazz players probably had some degree of training (lots of school) and are used to following musical direction and working with other people where as a lot of rockers (et all) are home grown and depend a lot on their ears vs written notation. I've worked with people who didn't even know what a verse, chorus or bridge was which does make it very hard to communicate which section you're talking about.

Chord charts with lyrics shared by all is the best way to kick off new songs - you're not relying on everyone to figure it out on the it own which leaves a lot of room for "this is the way I do it" issues. I'm not saying there is never a need to talk about arrangement options - for me one of the funnest things of a cover band is making it your own. Sometimes it's even required - managing a tune with a fade out, doing horn songs with no horns, etc. But you're all at the same starting point, at least you have a chance to get through the songs few times before working on custom arrangement ideas. If you start with 5 arrangement ideas, you'll never get anywhere.