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Double Jazz Bass Pickups

line6man

line6man

Jun 20, 2008
17,043
4,730
Close to Los Angeles, CA
#1
I am curious about those double jazz bass pickups that i have seen in the Fender American Deluxe P bass, and the Roscoe beck bass...

My fretless jazz is currently setup with a Jazz bridge pickup (and no neck pickup) with a 500K volume and 500K bypassable tone control with a 0.047uF capacitor.

I was planning on a PJ configuration (with seperate 500K volumes, 500K bypassable tone 0.047uF cap, and a 3 way strat style pickup selector switch) but i have found that i really love the simplicity and tone of just one Jazz style pickup in the bridge position, so i am starting to change my mind a bit (well, i seem to change my mind alot lately, so who knows what i will end up doing)

I was thinking that maybe with a double jazz pickup, i could have a series/single coil switch that would allow me to keep that jazz bass tone that i love, but also have a different-sounding-but-still-retaining-the-qualities-of-a-bridge-pickup type of thing, and without complicating things too much.

so my questions would be:

1. Do these double jazz pickups sound just like a regular jazz bass pickup in single coil mode?

2. What should i expect of the humbucker sound?

3. Who makes these pickups? If it makes a difference, tonewise, i am after a vintage jazz sound.
 
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#2
If we're talking about regular dual-jazz coils, most of them are splittable in the sense that you can have only one of the pickups from the pair active - so yes, those would probably sound like a regular jazz pickup. As for the humbucker sound, I honestly have no idea - all my humbuckers were MM-style.

Regarding manufacturers, there's a couple of options for you, off the top of my bookmarks:

* Curtis Novak JB-PAF
* Delano DJC4 HE/M2
* MAMA pickups DoubleJazz
* MEC Twin Jazz (active!)
* Nordstrand Dual Coils

Only ones I found in that format.

Edit: Thanks to BarkerBass for the reminder - Delano added.
 
#4
Thank you for the replies.

I found the Curtis Novak pickup on my own, and shot him an email.
I also found a company called Rio Grande Pickups that makes one, but i emailed them and the email bounced back.

I was kind of curious about the Delano Hybrid pickup a ways back, but i couldnt find a dealer.
I am going to have to pass on the Delano though, because i am not into the idea of a quadcoil pickup ,and it doesnt have exposed pole pieces.

the MAMA pickups website wasnt in english, so i cant really find any information on the pickup.

I will definatly have to pass on the MEC pickups if they are active.

And the Nordstrands look like soapbar pickups, and i want a jazz bass pickup look.
 
#6
In theory, that's exactly how dual-coils are made, two Jazz coils side-by side. However, you'd have to check for four things:

1) Both coils would have to be the same length (i.e. both are bridge-length or neck-length, as I couldn't figure out which one you're trying to set up).
2) The coils would have to be lined up so they're RWRP (reverse-wound, reverse-polarity) and wired as such. Preferably, they'd even be the same model (which pretty much groups the first two points).
3) Naturally, you'll have to route the body to accomodate both pickups, however...
4) You'll have to check the pickup location - whether you can nail two relatively loud harmonics right above each line of polepieces, or if you have to keep the harmonic right inbetween two lines of polepieces.

Along with that, keep in mind there's also the option of getting bar magnet pickups (such as the above MEC Twin Jazz), and you can always ask pickup manufacturers such as Villex to create custom models. For one, a set of Villex V2JSC (which are bar type) in form of a dual-coil would be a very interesting thing indeed...

Edit: The MAMA pickups site is easy enough to navigate - open the main page, click on Bass Humbucker on the left, then DoubleJazz in the centre, then foto or size on the top.
 
#7
Stealth said:
In theory, that's exactly how dual-coils are made, two Jazz coils side-by side. However, you'd have to check for four things:

1) Both coils would have to be the same length (i.e. both are bridge-length or neck-length, as I couldn't figure out which one you're trying to set up).
2) The coils would have to be lined up so they're RWRP (reverse-wound, reverse-polarity) and wired as such. Preferably, they'd even be the same model (which pretty much groups the first two points).
3) Naturally, you'll have to route the body to accomodate both pickups, however...
4) You'll have to check the pickup location - whether you can nail two relatively loud harmonics right above each line of polepieces, or if you have to keep the harmonic right inbetween two lines of polepieces.

Along with that, keep in mind there's also the option of getting bar magnet pickups (such as the above MEC Twin Jazz), and you can always ask pickup manufacturers such as Villex to create custom models. For one, a set of Villex V2JSC (which are bar type) in form of a dual-coil would be a very interesting thing indeed...

Edit: The MAMA pickups site is easy enough to navigate - open the main page, click on Bass Humbucker on the left, then DoubleJazz in the centre, then foto or size on the top.
Click to expand...

1. They would both be bridge pickups.
My plan is to have the bridgemost pickup of the two, in exactly the same spot as a traditional jazz pickup.

2. That would be the problem... If i took two of the pickups i use now, they would be in phase with each other and everything.
Maybe its better to just have a dual coil thats already made to work right, rather than building one from 2 pickups.

3. Yes, thats pretty obvious. I found a local luthier that does routing, so i will have him route a "no pickup" warmoth body for me to accomodate the double pickup.

4. I am not really sure what you are talking about with the harmonics, can you elaborate further?
 
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#8
As some of you have probably noticed from my other postings on this section of TB, i like to draw out schematics, so just for fun, i drew up the schematic of how i want the pickup wired.

I can either do series or parallel, depending on what sounds the best for the pickup...
 

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#9
line6man said:
4. I am not really sure what you are talking about with the harmonics, can you elaborate further?
Click to expand...

You probably know harmonics are natural overtones that ring along when you pluck a string, giving it more depth and a specific sound. Harmonic frequencies of an open string are always n*f, n being 1, 2, 3, 4... and so forth. In order to get a harmonic tone, you have to lightly press on a point on the string (to make that a new "end" for the wave).

Basically, a pickup "works best" (or, has a sweet-spot, as it's usually called) if it's positioned right underneath a harmonic point on the strings - commonly, on 21-fret basses the neck pickup is where the 24th fret would be. So effectively, you can either position the two pickups so the harmonics line up exactly above each row of polepieces (that is, if you can find a harmonic above both the front and the back row of the dual-coil), or mount the pickups so it's right inbetween the two rows.
 
#10
Stealth said:
You probably know harmonics are natural overtones that ring along when you pluck a string, giving it more depth and a specific sound. Harmonic frequencies of an open string are always n*f, n being 1, 2, 3, 4... and so forth. In order to get a harmonic tone, you have to lightly press on a point on the string (to make that a new "end" for the wave).

Basically, a pickup "works best" (or, has a sweet-spot, as it's usually called) if it's positioned right underneath a harmonic point on the strings - commonly, on 21-fret basses the neck pickup is where the 24th fret would be. So effectively, you can either position the two pickups so the harmonics line up exactly above each row of polepieces (that is, if you can find a harmonic above both the front and the back row of the dual-coil), or mount the pickups so it's right inbetween the two rows.
Click to expand...

Regular jazz basses have the neck pickups way higher than the 24th fret...

So how would i go about aligning the pickup to the harmonics? Is there a specific measurement from the bridge? (FWIW, 34 inch scale)
The routing will most likely be done before the instrument is assembled.
 
#12
I'd like to hear more discussion about the theory that pickups work best under harmonic nodes. This is counter-intuitive to me. Harmonic nodes are where the strings vibrate least. The placement of harmonics also changes as you fret different notes.
 
#13
dgelting said:
I'd like to hear more discussion about the theory that pickups work best under harmonic nodes. This is counter-intuitive to me. Harmonic nodes are where the strings vibrate least. The placement of harmonics also changes as you fret different notes.
Click to expand...


Agreed - all the node points change as you fret & the length of the vibrating part of the string changes. Total red herring & urban myth.
 
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#14
Ok, i emailed with Curtis Novak about this...

The pickup he makes has half sized coils, because full size jazz bass pickups are just too hot when combined.
So to solve this issue, I am going to have him build me a humbucker with a half sized neck pickup and a full sized bridge pickup with a coil tap.

The + of the neck pickup will be internally wired into the coil tap.
The bridge pickups + will be the hot wire that goes to the volume control.
I will take the - terminals from both pickups and wire them to a toggle switch that will select which on gets grounded.
When the neck pickup is grounded, the neck pickup is in series with half of the bridge pickup.
When the bridge pickup is grounded, the full bridge pickup is active, and the neck pickup is disconnected.
So i get both a traditional Jazz pickup, and a humbucker from one pickup...

The problem at this point is that he does not have covers... (He used Fender JazzMaster covers for that pickup, which look half-assed to me).
He says that he can make the pickup to fit any cover that i provide.

So does anybody know of a way to get a cover?
I posted an inquiry over at the Fender forums about purchasing the cover from the AmDlx P-Bass, and i am waiting for replies.
 
#15
line6man said:
2. That would be the problem... If i took two of the pickups i use now, they would be in phase with each other and everything.
Maybe its better to just have a dual coil thats already made to work right, rather than building one from 2 pickups.
Click to expand...

Humbuckers are just two pickups next to each other, except they often share the same magnet, but MM pickups are really like two single coils.

To make them to hum cancel, the magnets must be opposite, North for one, South for the other. Then you ether wire them out-of-phase, or you reverse wind one of them, which is electrically the same thing.

The reverse magnets make the two coils out-of-phase, and then when you wire them out they are back in again... but the hum doesn't use the magnets to get induced into the coils, so it ends out out-of-phase, and cancels out.

But the important part is the reverse magnet polarity, otherwise you will have them both in phase, and they will hum, or no hum, but out-of-phase and thin sounding.

Many pickup makers will be happy to wind you a set the way you want, including big companies like Seymour Duncan.
 
#16
Zombie thread resurrection...?

Line6man, how did this turn out? Did you like the results?

I'm asking because I'm looking to put together a bass of similar construction (P neck, double J bridge taken from a Big Block Precision bass). I'm looking to be able to switch the coils on the J HB with a three way selector, and also have the capability to run both the P and J in series, and I'm curious if your findings might help me achieve that.

My thinking behind the selector is that, while it might not make a huge practical difference, I want to be able to switch from a 60s bridge position pup to a 70s position, or have both. The spacing is just about correct for both. This bass is aesthetically being based on the style of a '57 Chevy Bel Air, so it is sort of a novelty anyway.

Anyway, I hope to hear back about your results!
 

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