Double-thumbing: Really hard on thumb/fingernail?

[OldSchoolFlats]

Newish to slap here. Sort-of got down the slap/pluck/ghost-note thing, but wondering about double-thumbing.

I can do it a little bit - thumb through the string, then pop the string when bringing the thumb back up - but it hurts my thumb after a few measures, and seems like the fingernail takes a beating on the up-stroke. Using D’Addario EXL165s. Not the lightest stings, but I love the sound.

Is it a matter of building-up a callus, and something similar for the fingernail?

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

FYI, found I did not need the double-thumb for what I was trying to do. Slap-hammer-pluck turned-out to be what I was actually looking for:

 

[JimmyM]

Nah, but the potential is there for sure. More nail, less skin.

 

[JonathanPDX]

The trick to the double thumb technique is that you make very little contact with the string. Only the very corner of the thumb/nail needs to strike, as opposed to hammering away with the entire side of your thumb like you might do for traditional slap.

Some guys, like Victor Wooten, do it with a lot of thumbnail and the nail can get beat up. Others get by with less nail and a very light and precise stroke. Personally, I keep my nails as short as possible and I don't have any trouble double thumping.

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

The trick to the double thumb technique is that you make very little contact with the string. Only the very corner of the thumb/nail needs to strike, as opposed to hammering away with the entire side of your thumb like you might do for traditional slap.

Some guys, like Victor Wooten, do it with a lot of thumbnail and the nail can get beat up. Others get by with less nail and a very light and precise stroke. Personally, I keep my nails as short as possible and I don't have any trouble double thumping.

Good to know!

Turns-out for the song “Blast!” by Marcus Miller, I need the double-thumb after all. I was really “hammering” the string with my thumb (both down/up): will try the lighter touch!

 

[JonathanPDX]

Good to know!

Turns-out for the song “Blast!” by Marcus Miller, I need the double-thumb after all. I was really “hammering” the string with my thumb (both down/up): will try the lighter touch!

Think of it like a guitar pick. Only the very tip needs to actually strike the string. I find a lot of folks get tripped up with the double-thumb because they are hitting the string with a lot of their thumb, and way too hard.

As with most techniques, some advice: Turn up the volume, let the amplifier do the work, and use your hands with the lightest possible touch to produce a vibration.

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

Think of it like a guitar pick. Only the very tip needs to actually strike the string. I find a lot of folks get tripped up with the double-thumb because they are hitting the string with a lot of their thumb, and way too hard.

As with most techniques, some advice: Turn up the volume, let the amplifier do the work, and use your hands with the lightest possible touch to produce a vibration.

In on-line tutorials I have seen, they generally show you "slamming" your thumb through the string, then catching the string in a "pluck-like" fashion on the up-stroke.

I like your way better...

 

[Jrussblues]

Your action is probably too high…just guessing.

 

[JonathanPDX]

In on-line tutorials I have seen, they generally show you "slamming" your thumb through the string, then catching the string in a "pluck-like" fashion on the up-stroke.
I like your way better...

I learned my way from Victor Wooten. I've been fortunate to sit down with him many times over the years and talk technique, as well as watching him play many, many shows. It's not the only way, but I find that an approach very close to his is effective (for me) for playing the Vic/Marcus style lines, and also really useful for things like walking fast bass lines or pedaling as you would with a pick.

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

I learned my way from Victor Wooten. I've been fortunate to sit down with him many times over the years and talk technique, as well as watching him play many, many shows. It's not the only way, but I find that an approach very close to his is effective (for me) for playing the Vic/Marcus style lines, and also really useful for things like walking fast bass lines or pedaling as you would with a pick.

Wow!

Bowing...
...I’m not worthy...
...I’m not worthy...

 

[JonathanPDX]

Here's a little sample video I recorded a while back that demonstrates my approach to double thumping and some other right-hand techniques:

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

Here's a little sample video I recorded a while back that demonstrates my approach to double thumping and some other right-hand techniques:

Good video, but I REALLY liked your TEDxSalem talk! Great bass playing, and thoughts on visualizing the fretboard. In the past, I have tried to build a similar visualization (grid, dots and colors), but did not have much luck. Again, some great "licks" at that TED talk! Your TED talk would make for a great thread here on TB, either Technique or General Instruction, for how we all visualize or otherwise internalize scales, patterns, etc.

Separately, if you like comedy, you may check-out Bill Bailey on YouTube. He is a UK comedian, that mixes guitar, keyboard and other instruments into his act. The YouTube clips where he is on-stage are great: one had royalty and various stars in the audience and on-stage. I skip the ones where he is on TV, though: I don't "get" typical British humor.

 

[JonathanPDX]

Good video, but I REALLY liked your TEDxSalem talk! Great bass playing, and thoughts on visualizing the fretboard. In the past, I have tried to build a similar visualization (grid, dots and colors), but did not have much luck. Again, some great "licks" at that TED talk! Your TED talk would make for a great thread here on TB, either Technique or General Instruction, for how we all visualize or otherwise internalize scales, patterns, etc.

Thank you for the kind words! I'd be happy to chat about it, I just didn't want to spam the board with a "please click my video" post.

I'm slowly working on an original jazz album, most of the tunes are more melodic and don't feature bass pyrotechnics, but I'll be sure to put some clips up when I get around to recording the flashy stuff.

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

Thank you for the kind words! I'd be happy to chat about it, I just didn't want to spam the board with a "please click my video" post.

I'm slowly working on an original jazz album, most of the tunes are more melodic and don't feature bass pyrotechnics, but I'll be sure to put some clips up when I get around to recording the flashy stuff.

I think posting it would provide very useful supporting material for a new thread something like:

• Forum: General Instruction or Technique
• Subject: How do you internalize/remember scales and arpeggios on the fretboard?
• Body: I am wondering how people internalize scales, arpeggios, and even songs on the fretboard? Visually? Muscle-memory? Other? I did a TED talk on this some time ago, so I find this a very interesting subject. So much to remember...

 

[Jeanpaulgoat]

Newish to slap here. Sort-of got down the slap/pluck/ghost-note thing, but wondering about double-thumbing.

I can do it a little bit - thumb through the string, then pop the string when bringing the thumb back up - but it hurts my thumb after a few measures, and seems like the fingernail takes a beating on the up-stroke. Using D’Addario EXL165s. Not the lightest stings, but I love the sound.

Is it a matter of building-up a callus, and something similar for the fingernail?

Dont worry about the strings. I double thumb with 135-50 on five string. I find it easier as you get a lower non buzzing action with heavier strings and much better tone that sounds more consistent across the strings. The key is to be relaxed and play through the strings. I have small callous at left of thumbnail halfway up. The nail itself doesnt really get touched though. I play a lot but it still took a good few months before it properly clicked and felt natural. Make sure you double thumb and pluck on the same string too. Check out Alain Caron he is the master of this technique! I love the funk a la Wooten but this technique lends itself well to melodies too.

 

[TOOL460002]

Dont worry about the strings. I double thumb with 135-50 on five string. I find it easier as you get a lower non buzzing action with heavier strings and much better tone that sounds more consistent across the strings. The key is to be relaxed and play through the strings. I have small callous at left of thumbnail halfway up. The nail itself doesnt really get touched though. I play a lot but it still took a good few months before it properly clicked and felt natural. Make sure you double thumb and pluck on the same string too. Check out Alain Caron he is the master of this technique! I love the funk a la Wooten but this technique lends itself well to melodies too.

Another vote for thicker strings. I'm not awesome at this technique, but I had a breakthrough of sorts playing BEAD for whatever reason. I'm not grazing the string. Lots of torque, so having more string to snag actually helps me transfer it to EADG. I do this exactly where I slap, but I slap thumb down, so this takes a slight wrist turn to double thumb pluck or double pluck things. Right now it's way easier to double thumb, say, the D (on EADG) and index pluck the G, but way easier to double thumb the A and middle pluck the G. For double plucking it seems easiest to slap the A, index pluck the D, and then middle pluck the G. No idea why. Still working on combining things, but this is where I'm at after way too much time. It's quite satisfying.

If I'm just grazing the strings I double thumb pluck over the neck at the 18-20th fret, although I can't get the middle finger in there. It's less percussive and more of a strumming/flamenco attack, though, so not really the same thing, but it allows for hitting the same notes at the same speed or faster (at least for me).

 

[Jeanpaulgoat]

I think posting it would provide very useful supporting material for a new thread something like:

• Forum: General Instruction or Technique
• Subject: How do you internalize/remember scales and arpeggios on the fretboard?
• Body: I am wondering how people internalize scales, arpeggios, and even songs on the fretboard? Visually? Muscle-memory? Other? I did a TED talk on this some time ago, so I find this a very interesting subject. So much to remember...

It is essential to know what a pattern will sound like BEFORE you play it. Music is a sound not a shape. The aim is not to remember shapes and patterns but the sound they make. If you know the sound you want your fingers will have no choice but to obey! It is like words - you dont remember the letters in every word, but the sound of the word as a whole and the meaning. Eventually you express yourself without even thinking about words. Thoughts and emotions can just flow out of your mouth without conscious effort. Music is the same. So dont overly watch the fretboard and focus more on the sounds the patterns make. That said, play your scales etc in every interval, forwards, backwards, upside down and inside out but always be aware of the sound you are making.

Playing and remembering songs is a very different discipline to learning an instrument though. The song always comes first and you should understand every part and instrument in the song and how they fit together. It takes time. I recommend listening to a song you like and know well and listen to the drums first time through. Then listen again to the bass. Then guitar. And so on. By the time you have given a dedicated listen to every part you will begin to know the song and not just one part. It then becomes natural to rememeber the song without a concious effort. With practice you can begin to really hear how multiple parts fit together. When you get the hang of it go and listen to Beethoven's symphonies...

The essence of being a musician is... use your ears! Unless you are Beethoven of course. I don't really know how he did what he did!