Doubts about Fender's bass adjustments procedure

[Hypercaffium]

Here's the article from Fender's website:
Invalid Link Removed

My doubts about the truss rod instructions.

Affix a capo at the first fret...

Ok, but where? In the middle space of the fret, at the beginning, at the end? Over the actual fret?
Changing the reference point makes a noticeable difference when measuring if the neck is straight.

...depress the fourth string at the last fret.

Again: where? Do I need to push right in the middle of the fret like when I'm playing a fretted bass, at the end like when I'm playing a fretless bass, or should I literaly push... the actual fret?

With a feeler gauge, check the gap between the bottom of the string and the top of the 8th fret—see the spec chart below for the proper gap.

The "proper gap" between the bottom of the E string and the top of the 8tht fret on my bass should be 0.30 mm. I have a P bass with 9.5'' neck radius, so it should be correct.
My question is, do I need to check if the 0.30 feeler gauge fits just under the E string, or it should fit under all the strings?
Because of the neck/frets radius, you'll see that there's less space under A and D strings and the filler gauge won't fit well under them, even if it fits perfectly under the E string.
After doing a couple of measurements, I came to the conclusion that the numbers are referred just to the E string, but I must be 100% sure before making more (possibly wrong) adjustments.
At the moment a standard 1 mm credit card doesn't fit under the E string without touching it, so I'm pretty sure the space is less than 1 mm, but according to these Fender specs the space should be less and I need to tighten the truss rod a little bit more.

Caution: Because of the amount of string tension on the neck, you should loosen the strings before adjusting the truss rod.

This makes perfectly sense to me, but some people seem to disagree. Why?
Plus, Fender doesn't seem to suggest to loosen the strings when setting the intonation (on the bridge saddles) but a lot of people do that. Why?

My doubts about action instructions.

First, check tuning. Using a 6" (150 mm) ruler, measure the distance between bottom of strings and top of the 17th fret. Adjust bridge saddles to the height according to the chart below, then re-tune. Experiment with the height until the desired sound and feel is achieved.

According to the chart, the ideal height should be 2.4 mm on the E side and 2 mm on the G side.
What about the A and D strings?
I guess they should be higher to match the neck radius, but no reference measurements available. What should I do?

Other doubts.
1) Saddles.
I mounted my new 50-105 rounds thru body. I've seen that each saddle has 3 "rows" where you can fit the string (the saddle in the picture below has just one).
Looking at how each string come out of the bass body, I've chosen the "rows" that preserve the natural direction of each string the most. I ended up using the lower rows for E and A and the top rows for D and G.
All the strings seem equally distant so I guess I did everything ok, but I'm curious about the other rows. When trying them I noticed how bad the string was turned, I wonder how people use them?
2) Saddles, again.
Look at this picture:

Starting from the assumption that the saddles should be adjusted according to the neck radius (not literally, just as a reference point), I see two options.
Option #1 would be to simply set the saddles for E and G string lower than the A and D, but each saddle should be straight (see the A saddle on the picture) and basically parallel to the bridge's base.
Option #2 should be almost the same, but with both the E and G string saddles inclined toward the bottom (see the E saddle on the picture).
This kind of setup looks better and more natural to me, but I'm not sure it's a good thing to do.
Thanks for your help!

 

[Gorn]

The Fender website is notoriously out of date and inaccurate. Besides, unless you're setting up basses for other people, I've never heard a good reason to measure anything during a set up.

 

[Hypercaffium]

The Fender website is notoriously out of date and inaccurate. Besides, unless you're setting up basses for other people, I've never heard a good reason to measure anything during a set up.

I'll give you a pretty damn good reason: inexperience.
Everybody should start somewhere, I decided to start from Fender specs, since I have a Fender bass. I don't expect to have a perfect setup following their procedure, because I know that each instrument is different and each one of us have a different approach to the instrument. I expect to get a starting point, so I can learn how to do it and develop my own experience. After that, I'll be able to find "my way" to do things, not before.
I would never tell a person which never did a setup to "go by feel/look". I'm sure you're just trying to help but if you really want that, please reply to my questions. Measurements aren't the only problem here.
Thanks.

 

[Gorn]

I would never tell a person which never did a setup to "go by feel/look". I'm sure you're just trying to help but if you really want that, please reply to my questions. Measurements aren't the only problem here

I would. But to answer your direct questions, no one here works for Fender. They have a customer service number and they would know the answers.

 

[Englishman]

Looks like you're over thinking most of this. Capo in normal place... fret the note normally..

Usually it's a good idea to slacken the strings before tightening the truss rod because there's a lot of tension on it strung up, you risk stripping the threads on the rod. Get yourself an under string radius gauge, they bridge saddles should follow the fretboard radius. The measurements for all strings should be the same.

 

[Hypercaffium]

Looks like you're over thinking most of this. Capo in normal place... fret the note normally..

Usually it's a good idea to slacken the strings before tightening the truss rod because there's a lot of tension on it strung up, you risk stripping the threads on the rod. Get yourself an under string radius gauge, they bridge saddles should follow the fretboard radius. The measurements for all strings should be the same.

I have a set of string radius gauge and I don't know where to place it to measure, honestly.
I really appreciate your help but you probably don't understand how hard is for a beginner to understand the steps to follow. Everybody suggests different things, different methods, different order etc. and the result is confusion. Confusion brings exitation, exitation brings inaccuracy, inaccuracy can damage your instrument.
Again, I really appreciate your help, but most of my questions are still unanswered.

 

[petrus61]

For a more thorough guide to setting up any bass (yep, Fenders too), look no further than this free pdf:
http://www.jerzydrozdbasses.com/akcndfr54jdhrei567/Ultimate_Guide_ver100.pdf

The info in this guide will clear up the murkiness.

 

[bolophonic]

^ Use that guide.

 

[Funkdified]

I made a quick YouTube playlist for you. In case you're a visual learner. As you already know fender measurements are guide. Once you get it set up adjust to your liking. Once you have it set up for you, re-measure everything and right it down.

I paid for my first set up back in 1994-95(when only the school library had internet) and asked if I could watch. Been doing it myself ever since.

Setup - YouTube

 

[Hypercaffium]

I will, thanks!

Another popular recommended guide is this one:
Invalid Link Removed

Unfortunately, measurements are completely different compared to Fender specs. For example, he takes a credit card (1 mm) as a measurement tool to check if the neck is straight or not. Like I wrote before, a credit card doesn't fit under my E string but the neck is still not straight. 0.30 mm (Fender specs) seems a much more logical measurement, in my case. That's why I dropped that website and followed Fender article.
I'll read this last guide too, I hope the confusion will go away because it's really frustrating. I really want to learn, but I constantly find lots of incomplete, unclear, and conflicting informations.
Since I have just one bass and I love it, I don't want to ruin it.
You call it "overthinking", I call it being cautious and smart. Again, I appreciate your help.

 

[bolophonic]

Perhaps it would be useful for the OP to find someone local who can show them how to do a setup instead of reading different guides and questioning each suggested step along the way?

 

[Funkdified]

I will, thanks!

Another popular recommended guide is this one:
Invalid Link Removed

Unfortunately, measurements are completely different compared to Fender specs. For example, he takes a credit card (1 mm) as a measurement tool to check if the neck is straight or not. Like I wrote before, a credit card doesn't fit under my E string but the neck is still not straight. 0.30 mm (Fender specs) seems a much more logical measurement, in my case. That's why I dropped that website and followed Fender article.
I'll read this last guide too, I hope the confusion will go away because it's really frustrating. I really want to learn, but I constantly find lots of incomplete, unclear, and conflicting informations.
Since I have just one bass and I love it, I don't want to ruin it.
You call it "overthinking", I call it being cautious and smart. Again, I appreciate your help.

No, I get it. The card measurement should read business card, not credit card. A normal business card is 32pt or .32mm so the fender .30 is good.

You're going to find a lot of different measurements because people like different actions. So use fender's for a base line then tweak to your liking. Once you start playing more you'll get to know your preferred action. That's how most people do it by feel instead of precise measurements.

I apologize for poopie spelling/grammar I have two kids climbing on me. LOL

 

[petrus61]

Just to mirror what others have said, the Fender factory specs are a baseline, but not gospel. For example on my Fenders (9.5/1.62) if using the factory strings, I find their suggested action and relief to be quite uncomfortable in my hands. I prefer a slightly straighter neck and lower action (no higher than 4/64ths @17th fret with first fret depressed). Also, ignore any guide telling you any of the saddles should be anything but perfectly horizontal. They're meant to be horizontal while following the curvature of the radius by setting their height alone.

I do understand your frustration, but it takes patience. The pdf I linked should go a long way toward explaining the missing pieces.

 

[Hypercaffium]

Perhaps it would be useful for the OP to find someone local who can show them how to do a setup instead of reading different guides and questioning each suggested step along the way?

I'd be more than happy to practice with someone local, of course.
My goal is not to "question" anything, I just want to learn. The reason why I'm asking all these questions is because informations are somehow incomplete, unclear, and conflicting. I don't question the authors' skills, I question their inability to make themselves clear to a newbie, which is hard.

No, I get it. The card measurement should read business card, not credit card.

I suspected that, that's why I'm using a .30 filler gauge. Even Jerzy Drozd suggests around .30, so I think I will start from there.
Let me say again that there's lot of misinformation, I think it wouldn't be hard for a newbie to cause some damage.
Better be safe than sorry, right?

 

[Hypercaffium]

Just to mirror what others have said, the Fender factory specs are a baseline, but not gospel. For example on my Fenders (9.5/1.62) if using the factory strings, I find their suggested action and relief to be quite uncomfortable in my hands. I prefer a slightly straighter neck and lower action (no higher than 4/64ths @17th fret with first fret depressed). Also, ignore any guide telling you any of the saddles should be anything but perfectly horizontal. They're meant to be horizontal while following the curvature of the radius by setting their height alone.

I do understand your frustration, but it takes patience. The pdf I linked should go a long way toward explaining the missing pieces.

So you have less than .30 mm from the bottom of your E string to the top of the 8th fret?
I didn't understand what you said about the saddles, sorry. English is not my native language.

 

[DoctorZee]

I use the Fender guide to get in the right ballpark, then salt and pepper to taste. It will be just fine. Don't stress over it too much. I do recommend loosening the strings for both truss and intonation adjustments.

 

[petrus61]

So you have less than .30 mm from the bottom of your E string to the top of the 8th fret?
I didn't understand what you said about the saddles, sorry. English is not my native language.

To be honest, I don't even measure my relief anymore. I'm just used to doing that by feel which I think is the better way when it comes to relief. If I'm getting excessive (a relative term) buzz on the first few frets, I know the neck is too straight. Holding the first and 17th fret, I can just barely slide a business card through and it is in contact with the bottom of the string when doing so.

Edit: My setup isn't ideal for everyone and could be considered unplayable by some people's standards, but that's because I know my bass, I know how my fingers will attack the strings, and I know the limits I can bring it to to make it comfortable for my style. There's really no right or wrong except for using common sense and measured caution when it comes to physically making the adjustments.

 

[Roland GR 88]

The PDF linked above is a pretty clear guide. Inaccuracies will not damage your guitar in any way and these measurements are for average playability and will change depending on the player. The only commonality is intonation which is as easy as using a tuner and is in itself a compromise where close is the best you'll get.
Some people like to get it down to the mm with their set-ups. Some, like me, just eye-ball things and go with that.
....and to confuse you even more I never slack off the strings for any adjustments.

 

[DoctorZee]

I never slack off the strings for any adjustments.

I never used to, but last year I found I was unable to turn the saddle screw during an intonation. It felt stuck, too taught, like something might snap. Started loosening the strings first and it hasn't happened since. That's just my experience.

 

[Smilodon]

Here's the article from Fender's website:
Invalid Link Removed

My doubts about the truss rod instructions.

Ok, but where? In the middle space of the fret, at the beginning, at the end? Over the actual fret?
Changing the reference point makes a noticeable difference when measuring if the neck is straight.

Again: where? Do I need to push right in the middle of the fret like when I'm playing a fretted bass, at the end like when I'm playing a fretless bass, or should I literaly push... the actual fret?

The goal here is to use the string as a straight edge. What you want is the string to touch two frets at the same time and measure the bow of the neck against a straight reference (The string). Most people only have at most two hands, so the capo at one end is there to help you hold the string at one end, while you hold it against the fret at the other end. So basically the position doesn't matter much as long as the string makes proper contact with the fret. Just don't put too much pressure too close to the string as this may bend the string slightly up at the other side of the fret.

The "proper gap" between the bottom of the E string and the top of the 8tht fret on my bass should be 0.30 mm. I have a P bass with 9.5'' neck radius, so it should be correct.
My question is, do I need to check if the 0.30 feeler gauge fits just under the E string, or it should fit under all the strings?
Because of the neck/frets radius, you'll see that there's less space under A and D strings and the filler gauge won't fit well under them, even if it fits perfectly under the E string.
After doing a couple of measurements, I came to the conclusion that the numbers are referred just to the E string, but I must be 100% sure before making more (possibly wrong) adjustments.
At the moment a standard 1 mm credit card doesn't fit under the E string without touching it, so I'm pretty sure the space is less than 1 mm, but according to these Fender specs the space should be less and I need to tighten the truss rod a little bit more.

You only have one truss rod to adjust, so you can't adjust the relief under the strings independently. If it's correct under one string all the others have to be correct as well.

This makes perfectly sense to me, but some people seem to disagree. Why?

Because they are lazy. Just do it. It doesn't harm anything to loosen the tension, and it may save your truss rod. You have to retune anyway.

Plus, Fender doesn't seem to suggest to loosen the strings when setting the intonation (on the bridge saddles) but a lot of people do that. Why?

Moving the saddle towards the bridge will change the angle of the bridge end of the string. This will put tension on the system when you adjust. On some bridges you don't have a crew to help you. Adjusting under tension just makes it more dfficult.

My doubts about action instructions.

According to the chart, the ideal height should be 2.4 mm on the E side and 2 mm on the G side.
What about the A and D strings?
I guess they should be higher to match the neck radius, but no reference measurements available. What should I do?

The strings should more or less match the radius of the frets, but with more height on the bass side. (Heavier strings have a larger swing when played, so they need more clearance.) If you set the outer strings first and then match the radius relative to those two strings then the inner two should be close to perfect. I tend yo set the strings slightly lower individually afterwards, but that is personal preference.

Other doubts.
1) Saddles.
I mounted my new 50-105 rounds thru body. I've seen that each saddle has 3 "rows" where you can fit the string (the saddle in the picture below has just one).
Looking at how each string come out of the bass body, I've chosen the "rows" that preserve the natural direction of each string the most. I ended up using the lower rows for E and A and the top rows for D and G.
All the strings seem equally distant so I guess I did everything ok, but I'm curious about the other rows. When trying them I noticed how bad the string was turned, I wonder how people use them?

The grooves are to adjust the spacing between the strings at the bridge. If you have a wide neck you use the outer grooves, and a narrower neck use the inner grooves. Usually the strings should be more or less parallel with the edges of the fretboard.

2) Saddles, again.
Look at this picture:

Starting from the assumption that the saddles should be adjusted according to the neck radius (not literally, just as a reference point), I see two options.
Option #1 would be to simply set the saddles for E and G string lower than the A and D, but each saddle should be straight (see the A saddle on the picture) and basically parallel to the bridge's base.
Option #2 should be almost the same, but with both the E and G string saddles inclined toward the bottom (see the E saddle on the picture).
This kind of setup looks better and more natural to me, but I'm not sure it's a good thing to do.
Thanks for your help!

The saddles should IMO always be level relative to the base plate.This prevents movement when adjusting and playing. My thinking is that the force on the saddle is downwards. Putting load on screws at an angle is not a good thing.

I don't think it really matters all that much, though.