Double Bass DPA 4099 vs AMT SP25B

[jrlynch]

What about the interaction of the room? Even if the sound coming out of the amp is identical in every way to the sound your bass produces, you would still have a different sound in different rooms.

true, but do you really need plus or minus 12db to deal with it?

 

[larry]

true, but do you really need plus or minus 12db to deal with it?

Not really, but I don't need every watt of power all the time either.

 

[shwashwa]

i totally agree about the focus too, but that's why i brought up the pz pre. it doesnt have phantom power, which is why i use that external unit that i linked, but the eq points are exactly where i want them for bass, including the sweepable mids, its a 2 channel blender with 2 10 meg ohm inputs and a high pass filter and a seperate notch filter. you can use both at the same time if you ever wanted. using the pz pre with the dpa mic is slightly more inconvienient than using the headway because you need an external phantom power source, but in my opinion as a preamp it sounds better. i still own the headway and will continue to A/B them every chance i get, but so far the pz pre wins for me.

I agree, most of those preamps were voiced for guitar and not bass so the EQ points are not as useful as they need to be or could be.

The AI Focus is the same way.

Those that are marketed towards bass players are often things that are adapted from guitar products.

There are very few double bass specific electric devices designed from the ground up.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Haven't really found the range in using the mic on a gig yet - it seems to do fine, but I can do better, so I'll hold off on commenting there until I've got it dialed in. However, there's an interesting mounting alternative which purists may hate but which I think is pretty cool - the sax clip mount, which can clip on to the F hole like so:

From close up:
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My string silks look pretty gnarly in this one, but...
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I like how the thing just kind of disappears from a distance:

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[bribass]

i totally agree about the focus too, but that's why i brought up the pz pre. it doesnt have phantom power, which is why i use that external unit that i linked, but the eq points are exactly where i want them for bass, including the sweepable mids, its a 2 channel blender with 2 10 meg ohm inputs and a high pass filter and a seperate notch filter. you can use both at the same time if you ever wanted. using the pz pre with the dpa mic is slightly more inconvienient than using the headway because you need an external phantom power source, but in my opinion as a preamp it sounds better. i still own the headway and will continue to A/B them every chance i get, but so far the pz pre wins for me.

So is there no way to use the phantom power of the Focus to power the 4099 AND use the PZ pre at the same time? thru the effects loop perhaps?

 

[flateverest]

Not to hijack this thread .... how does the 4099 compare to the 4021?
Are they equal soundwise or does the 4021 better the 4099?
Does the 4099 do better because of ease of attachment and gooseneck? Anything else?
Thanks for any comments.

 

[shwashwa]

i tried that with my 2x10 head and it didnt work so well because even when you go out of the effects loop and have the effects blend turned all the way down there is still some signal present on that channel, so i got some feedback. im not sure how the focus head is the same or different than the 2x10 head, but now thati think about it, there is a channel on/off switch. i dont know if that affects just the sound or the sound and the phantom power of the channel. ill have to try it. if it just acts like a mute switch for that channel then maybe i can use the amp's phantom power on the muted channel, and go through the effects send into the pz pre. ill have to give it a shot.

its been a while since i tried this, but if i remember correctly, i didnt like the tone of the mic with all those gain stages going on. using the phantom power of the amp itself still puts you through the amp's preamp. the external phantom power is just power, not gain, and the pz pre does the rest. you can then come out of the pz pre into either the main input or into the effects return.

ill play with it later today and post results
by the way brian, i live in jersey, so if i ever have another gig (!) you can come by and check it out. (we've met years ago. you tried to recruit me for SAI when i was a wee lad but i passed in favor of partying for the summer! hey, i cant help it , i live at the shore!)
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So is there no way to use the phantom power of the Focus to power the 4099 AND use the PZ pre at the same time? thru the effects loop perhaps?

 

[shwashwa]

hey brian, i tried your idea with using the phantom power on the AI head and running it through the effects send into the pz pre blender and it worked. you have to make sure to use the phantom power on channel 2, and then mute channel 2 otherwise it doesnt work. i dont know if the focus works like this. i have the ten 2 head and combo

 

[bribass]

hey brian, i tried your idea with using the phantom power on the AI head and running it through the effects send into the pz pre blender and it worked. you have to make sure to use the phantom power on channel 2, and then mute channel 2 otherwise it doesnt work. i dont know if the focus works like this. i have the ten 2 head and combo

Hey Steve, Thnx for trying this and letting us know. I'm a bit confused, though. Why are you muting Ch. 2?

I thought it may work by putting the 4099 directly into the input of either channel and then putting the PZ looped into the effects send and return. That way you would be using the pre of the AI, but you could have the eq advantage of the PZ AND you could still blend a pu into the signal w/ the other channel of the AI.

What is the 4099 plugged into in your method of muting the channel? Into the PZ unit?

Thnx in advance for explaining. Bri

 

[shwashwa]

ok, this is what i did. i plugged the mic into the input of channel 2 on the AI head. i took the effects send from that channel and ran it to the input of the pz pre (pz pre is now muted). now, even with the effects blend all the way down, im getting mic signal from channel 2 through the amp. i dont want this. i only want to hear the mic through the pz pre, so i have to mute channel 2 on the AI head. i mute it and now have no sound. i un mute the pz pre and now i hear the mic through the pz pre. im running the pz pre into the effects send of channel 1. you can also plug a piezo into the other channel on the pz pre and the blended signal will go through channel one effects return on the AI head. its not as complicated as it sounds.

Hey Steve, Thnx for trying this and letting us know. I'm a bit confused, though. Why are you muting Ch. 2?

I thought it may work by putting the 4099 directly into the input of either channel and then putting the PZ looped into the effects send and return. That way you would be using the pre of the AI, but you could have the eq advantage of the PZ AND you could still blend a pu into the signal w/ the other channel of the AI.

What is the 4099 plugged into in your method of muting the channel? Into the PZ unit?

Thnx in advance for explaining. Bri

 

[bribass]

Oh,OK. Thnx for the explanation. Have you tried it w looping the signal from the PZ back into the Return on ch. 2 w the ch. 2 mute off?

I'd imagine the phantom pwr would still work and you could still plug the pu into the PZ to blend plus have Ch.1 completely free.

I'm pretty sure the Focus has the same controls/features as the AI 2x10 head and the Clarus +

 

[shwashwa]

id imagine that would give alot of feedback since even with the effects blend all the way on (clockwise), you'd still be getting some mic sound directly from the input and some more from the blender its not a 100% effects only signal, i can give it a shot though.

Oh,OK. Thnx for the explanation. Have you tried it w looping the signal from the PZ back into the Return on ch. 2 w the ch. 2 mute off?

I'd imagine the phantom pwr would still work and you could still plug the pu into the PZ to blend plus have Ch.1 completely free.

I'm pretty sure the Focus has the same controls/features as the AI 2x10 head and the Clarus +

 

[DamiánDoubleBas]

Hello,

It looks like everyone here is happy with the DPA. I wonder if anyone who had an AMT before is happier with the DPA.
A friend of mine borrowed an AMT SP25B to me for a couple of gigs. I was really impressed. I was going to order one until I found this thread.

I had three gigs with it:

1) Jazz Trio + Singer:
I've used the mic directly to a PA. I fell in love with the mic. It was my sound, my dynamics. The drummer was next to me and he plays very loudly. I had no problems at all.

2) A Fado gig (Portuguese music):
It was a very acoustic setting. No drums, plenty of space between instruments. I absolutely loved the mic. I play a lot of pizz and arco with that group. The only problem I had was that the side mount didn't help me with the bow. I have a very big bass. I couldn't put the mic out of my bow way as much as I wanted, because my bass is very wide and I almost couldn't attach the mic to the side.

3) Jazz Trio + Singer (in another club):

This time I plugged the AMT to my AI Coda. It was a disaster. The acoustics of that particular club is very bad anyway, but I had to use my realist pickup instead of the AMT. I couldn't get a loud/usable sound.

A couple of friends told me that they had the same problems in loud situations, with drummers in small jazz clubs. I was going to order the one with the tailpiece mount, to avoid problems with the bow and to have a more permanent setup.
Unfortunately I couldn't do more tests and my friend doesn't have the microphone anymore.

My questions are:

1) The DPA sounds better? It has the same or better sound quality? How about dynamics playing with a drummer/jazz group? How about with gut strings?

2) The AMT has this signal problem with an amp? I have found this information on their site: Invalid Link Removed
It says something of an alternative chip

3) Is it true that the DPA has more gain before feedback than the AMT? A lot of users claim that the DPA has more gain than any other setup, but I can't recall anyone comparing it specifically to the AMT in that regard. Maybe someone already post that and I've missed it.

Thank you all and I hope my English was not so bad.

 

[shwashwa]

i had the AMT and didnt like it at all. so much so that i returned it. Im not returning the DPA. i think its a much better mic. better sound, much better gain before feedback. It's a micro shotgun style, which i believe is probably the only one of its kind right now.

Hello,

It looks like everyone here is happy with the DPA. I wonder if anyone who had an AMT before is happier with the DPA.
A friend of mine borrowed an AMT SP25B to me for a couple of gigs. I was really impressed. I was going to order one until I found this thread.

I had three gigs with it:

1) Jazz Trio + Singer:
I've used the mic directly to a PA. I fell in love with the mic. It was my sound, my dynamics. The drummer was next to me and he plays very loudly. I had no problems at all.

2) A Fado gig (Portuguese music):
It was a very acoustic setting. No drums, plenty of space between instruments. I absolutely loved the mic. I play a lot of pizz and arco with that group. The only problem I had was that the side mount didn't help me with the bow. I have a very big bass. I couldn't put the mic out of my bow way as much as I wanted, because my bass is very wide and I almost couldn't attach the mic to the side.

3) Jazz Trio + Singer (in another club):

This time I plugged the AMT to my AI Coda. It was a disaster. The acoustics of that particular club is very bad anyway, but I had to use my realist pickup instead of the AMT. I couldn't get a loud/usable sound.

A couple of friends told me that they had the same problems in loud situations, with drummers in small jazz clubs. I was going to order the one with the tailpiece mount, to avoid problems with the bow and to have a more permanent setup.
Unfortunately I couldn't do more tests and my friend doesn't have the microphone anymore.

My questions are:

1) The DPA sounds better? It has the same or better sound quality? How about dynamics playing with a drummer/jazz group? How about with gut strings?

2) The AMT has this signal problem with an amp? I have found this information on their site: Invalid Link Removed
It says something of an alternative chip

3) Is it true that the DPA has more gain before feedback than the AMT? A lot of users claim that the DPA has more gain than any other setup, but I can't recall anyone comparing it specifically to the AMT in that regard. Maybe someone already post that and I've missed it.

Thank you all and I hope my English was not so bad.

 

[jrlynch]

first of all, thanks for bringing the thread back to the original point!

i don't have a personal experience with the amt, i can speak to the dpa side of things ...

1) The DPA sounds better? It has the same or better sound quality? How about dynamics playing with a drummer/jazz group? How about with gut strings?

the sound quality is truly exceptional for the size of the mic. these dpa guys know what they're doing, they've been doing it for a long time. the sound, i think, is comparable to the better short shotgun mics i've encountered for film sound. it picks up the sound of guts nicely.


2) The AMT has this signal problem with an amp? I have found this information on their site: Invalid Link Removed
It says something of an alternative chip

my only comment on this is that the output of the mic is on the low side, so you need a decent amount of gain from whatever you are using for a mic preamp.


3) Is it true that the DPA has more gain before feedback than the AMT? A lot of users claim that the DPA has more gain than any other setup, but I can't recall anyone comparing it specifically to the AMT in that regard. Maybe someone already post that and I've missed it.

Hello,

the dpa has tremendous side rejection. running it into my amp (genz benz shuttle 3.0) i keep experimenting with speaker placement ... the latest setup, which works quite well, is to get the amp up off the floor on a tilt back stand, and point the cabinet so it's as close to parallel to the mic as possible.

eq is cutting the highs a bit and the upper mids a bit, to take some of the natural crunchiness of the cabinet away.

it sounds stupidly good.

 

[anonymous02282011]

As a previous owner of the AMT and current owner of the DPA, I have to agree with jrlynchs comments above.

However, there are universal shortcomings that come with using a microphone. I've gotten better results sending the mic to FOH rather than through the bass amp. I don't think the mic will ever replace the pickup, and in many instances the pickup sounds so good that I don't go to the trouble of messing with it by adding the mic signal.

That being said, the DPA is a fine product. Mic placement has been key. If you look back at some of the pics I posted in this thread you will see the placement that has worked best for me; between the bridge and the fingerboard.

 

[NickyBass]

Here's another idea for the violin mount. It seems to be pretty sturdy. It has a nice compression fit. I wanted to keep it out of the way so it doesn't get caked in rosin!!!

So, is everyone using this mostly for FOH? Any ideas about getting more volume before feedback?

 

[Jake deVilliers]

Nice mic mount but your bridge could use a pull back towards the tailpiece - there's some gap there at the back of the feet.

 

[NickyBass]

Hmm. It appears that you're correct. Good eye.

 

[Uncletoad]

I like that Nickybass. Great idea. What is that D string?