• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

DR B string breakage

Unfortunately strings shouldn't be sold by Scale Length but by winding length.

When a customer calls me if I don't specifically know the instrument I ask two questions... Length from Ball End to Nut (to determine the shortest acceptable winding length) and Ball End to Tuning post for the thickest string (to determine the maximum winding length).

Once you have this info you can pick the correct length for your instrument.

Invalid Link Removed

All long scale string lengths vary by different string manufactures. The average length these days is 37". Only a couple are shorter, a few are 37.25" and DR is the longest "long scale" string with a 38" winding.
 
...
For example. A rigid string (one wound tightly with multiple layers) will not be as flexible as other strings. Going around the tuning post can cause a string like this to break.
...

So the multiple wraps are actually allowing the core to bend sharply, rather than limiting it to a gradual radius?

I was imagining the bending spring used on copper tubing to prevent kinking when making small radius bends. The spring prevents the tubing from bending sharply at any one point.

But I guess there lies the difference: a spring coil will tend to distribute the bend over a long arc, while a heavy close string wrap of non-springy material will tend to kink as easily as the core.

-
 
  • Like
Reactions: bdplaid
Unfortunately strings shouldn't be sold by Scale Length but by winding length.

When a customer calls me if I don't specifically know the instrument I ask two questions... Length from Ball End to Nut (to determine the shortest acceptable winding length) and Ball End to Tuning post for the thickest string (to determine the maximum winding length).

Once you have this info you can pick the correct length for your instrument.

Invalid Link Removed

All long scale string lengths vary by different string manufactures. The average length these days is 37". Only a couple are shorter, a few are 37.25" and DR is the longest "long scale" string with a 38" winding.

Agree completely, and didn't know you had this info on your site. I was actually looking for it online. Cool!

As for DRs being no-go for my bass, yeah. I can only assume they would also break on Fender 5's as well? Actually, they did break on my Mexi Jazz 5, but that had a small tuning post and I accepted it as that. The weird thing is that I have had some brands feed the speaking length into the post with no untoward effects. I seem to recall Ernie Ball Slinkies will.
 
Some DR users are hit and miss on five string jazz basses. That is why I had the shorter strings made.

The overall flexibility of the string will determine how the string does going around the tuning post. A quarter then around the post like the 37.25" slinkys does is just fine for them. They are a very flexible string.
 
I used Slinkies exclusively for 10 years, then started experimenting. DRs were highly recommended, but... I landed on XLs. Got a new set of Slinkies on now, brings back memories as they have a bark like no other, like em better than most. Not the sexiest string, but they don't break. :-)

taking my own thread off-topic, another great barky nickel string are Rotosound nickel. like em a lot, don't break.

My whole foray back into DR was started by looking for a string with more midrange, and i wanted to try the fatties. I have a set on Roto SoloBass 55s on order from BSO, and depending how they do, I may try the DR fatties (4 string set!) after that.

thanks mucho!
 
Maybe people are winding too fast? Take it nice and slow to allow the string to adjust to it's new state.
I've never had any probs with DRs (or any other string in 25 years of playing) this way. I use Low Riders and Fat Beams. Hex and round core.
 
I used only DR Strings from 1995 till until a few years ago, way before they came up with all the fancy stuff and all the endorsements, etc. I experienced similar breaking problems with only two brands so far (fresh out of pachage); F Bass (by La Bella, I guess) and DR Strings. I would assume these were stemmed from temporary QC issues, as both companies have great products in general. But, breaking during winding (slow and careful winding, I am talking about), not even during playing, means to me some extremely brittle metal used in production, so the chemical compound they produce or have (it) produced must have been problematic with those batches. It is impossible to check the quality of each string and therefore I would assume they QC their products on a selective basis. It is great to hear, though, they addressed the issue and replaced the broken strings for free.

In my case, I did not have much patience and I simply switched to Fodera after this happened three times in a row (from the same batches I bought) and I am a happy camper since then. Tone- and feel-wise? Well, I do not hear or feel much difference, if at all...
 
  • Like
Reactions: bdplaid
Unfortunately strings shouldn't be sold by Scale Length but by winding length.

When a customer calls me if I don't specifically know the instrument I ask two questions... Length from Ball End to Nut (to determine the shortest acceptable winding length) and Ball End to Tuning post for the thickest string (to determine the maximum winding length).

Once you have this info you can pick the correct length for your instrument.

Invalid Link Removed

All long scale string lengths vary by different string manufactures. The average length these days is 37". Only a couple are shorter, a few are 37.25" and DR is the longest "long scale" string with a 38" winding.

Great info Jason, thanks for posting.

Just out of curiosity, is there a reason that you know of as to why the DR's winding length is almost 1 inch longer that a standard 34 scale instrument's winding length? Not that it caused me any problems so far, but I noticed that the DR E string on me P and J basses always winds beyond the silk into the actual string.
 
So the multiple wraps are actually allowing the core to bend sharply, rather than limiting it to a gradual radius?



-
It's not so much about the radius, but rather, tension. The wrap wire is tight around the core and for all practical purposes can't slip. This means that in order to bend the string, the core has to stretch, because it has a longer path to follow around the radius of the post than the inner wrap. Think about what happens to the outer wrap wires as they make a bend. The portion on the outside of the bend opens up (stretches). The core has to do a similar dance, just not as much. Add tension from winding and you put a huge amount of stress on the core.
 
It's not so much about the radius, but rather, tension. The wrap wire is tight around the core and for all practical purposes can't slip. This means that in order to bend the string, the core has to stretch, because it has a longer path to follow around the radius of the post than the inner wrap. Think about what happens to the outer wrap wires as they make a bend. The portion on the outside of the bend opens up (stretches). The core has to do a similar dance, just not as much. Add tension from winding and you put a huge amount of stress on the core.

But there is always stress on the core, as that's what is actually the string, the structural component. Cores are flexible and have to be - we stretch strings out to keep them in tune, we bend them when we play, and when they vibrate they stretch and return, stretch and return, many times per second; we call that a "note." It is the core that is wrapped around the post - just not the windings that are called the "speaking length."

The speaking length of the string should not be wound into the post; we are told this repeatedly by string manufacturers. Why is this? A flexibility issue. Thinking about it, if one has a wire core, and he wants to make it stiffer, what does he do? wraps it with ever-more layers of wire, the windings. This makes the string stiff. Therefore, feeding the windings, or "speaking length" of the string into the post is like feeding the stiffest part of the string into an area where the strings needs its most flexibility.

If this is so, then why would DR insist on making their strings to industry-standard extra long length (38"), and calling them "long." and in particular, why would they ship a B string - the thickest, inherently least flexible, and shortest - with the same speaking length, knowing it will feed the windings into the post?

It takes nerve to sell that product then tell the consumer to not use it in the only way it can be used. No wonder their customer service is so generous in handing out replacement strings - this must happen all time. So much so that one retailer on here has had custom-wound lengths made for precisely this reason. DR should have done it on their own.

DR is plainly swimming upstream from the rest of the industry with a 38" speaking length and calling it long scale. in my book, that's extra long scale. always has been. and thinking about it, if feeding the speaking length of the strings into the post will most always break the string, so much so that manufacturers tell us NOT to do it, yet DR insists on making their strings so long, from my vantage it's a bad design.

I have had this problem before: back in the 80's, I had a Kramer 450B. It had tiny little string posts that, for the E and G strings, were almost right against the zero fret/nut. Rotosounds and LaBellas broke because the speaking length wound into the post. I had custom-length strings wound by LaBella to solve the issue. It's too bad it looks like DR, as far as B strings go, are back in the bad old days for me. But there are many other choices, so not as big a deal as it was back then.

and don't tell me again and again it's my bass. does this on ALL of my basses, and I have many. Great if it works for you.

And I will say for the umpteenth time: these comments are for 34" scale basses only.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlexanderB
But there is always stress on the core, as that's what is actually the string, the structural component. Cores are flexible and have to be - we stretch strings out to keep them in tune, we bend them when we play, and when they vibrate they stretch and return, stretch and return, many times per second; we call that a "note." It is the core that is wrapped around the post - just not the windings that are called the "speaking length."

The speaking length of the string should not be wound into the post; we are told this repeatedly by string manufacturers. Why is this?
So it won't break? : D I know how strings are constructed, and how they work. Not a problem with your bass, obviously. If you were to wind your B onto your E tuner as an experiment, it won't break. Because of what I stated.
 
Some DR users are hit and miss on five string jazz basses. That is why I had the shorter strings made.

The overall flexibility of the string will determine how the string does going around the tuning post. A quarter then around the post like the 37.25" slinkys does is just fine for them. They are a very flexible string.

FWIW I have never had a problem with the Hi-Beam low B on my 5-string Jazz Bass.
 
So it won't break? : D I know how strings are constructed, and how they work. Not a problem with your bass, obviously. If you were to wind your B onto your E tuner as an experiment, it won't break. Because of what I stated.
rehetorical. but yeah, feeding the b into the E post won't, because it's no longer down into the speaking length of the string.
 
Possibly. What do you think makes it break?
the same thing that makes all (most) strings fed into the speaking length break - going beyond the string's tolerance for flex. and as we all know, they vary quite a bit. geez, have you ever felt the new EB cobalt flats? like old spaghetti. I bet one could never make them break on a string post. but round core strings exist because people like the "softer" feel, meaning they have more flex. I bet this is why the DR Hibeams and other DR round cores don't break.

Bear with me, I'm belaboring this because I'm curious. :-)