Dr James Watson resigned

[Dr. Cheese]

+1

We can't effectively evaluate intelligence within closely similar population. Standardized intelligence testing has been used for years even though its ability to give a true picture of an individual's intelligence is far from accurate or reliable.

As far as Africa is concerned, how do researchers even begin? The continent of Africa is huge and contains a very diverse population. In very poor regions of the world, I think physiologically, the difference in intelligence is probably negligible at most, and is more likely a difference in the rate of intellectual development due to physical and cultural impediments. Those impediments (lack of education, limited social interaction outside of their community, and limited exposure to advanced technology, etc.) would slow the rate of the learning process for many affected individuals, but it does not indicate a lesser intelligence, nor does it indicate a limited capacity to learn.

The funny thing is that in Africa, the most "uneducated" peasant usually speaks a minimum of three languages. In South Africa, for example, it is very common for Black South Africans to speak ten languages very well. The languages being all the major Bantu languages, Afrikaans, and English. Africans have been known to fix cars literally with sticks and strings. They can recycle and repair darn near anything also. In short, they function well in an environment that most Westerners cannot begin to handle.

 

[mike_v_s]

Great scientists aren't immune to stupid thoughts. Kary Mullis won the nobel prize for developing PCR which is an invaluable tool in biological research and forensics and he's a complete nut. His claims of meeting aliens, belief in astrology, disbelief in AIDS and love of LSD don't endear him to the scientific community. The great things people accomplish don't shield them from criticism in other areas. So Watson's achievement and/or age don't give him immunity to say ignorant things.

Wow. Talk about backwards. In the above example, a wacky personality with a solid scientific background won the Nobel Prize. Recently, a solid personality with a wacky scientific background won a Nobel Prize. Just an observation. Carry on with whatever it is this thread was doing.

My contribution: I hate old people for the way they think. I'll continue to think this way until I'm about 70, then I'll hate young people for, curiously, the same reason.

Mike

 

[Deleted member 79588]

There was never a time in recorded history where scientists (or even laymen) believed the earth was flat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

"Belief in a flat Earth is found in mankind's oldest writings."

"In early classical antiquity, the Earth was generally believed to be flat"

"In ancient China, the prevailing belief was that the earth was flat and square"

 

[Blackbird]

It's an old man with old ideas...I hope?

 

[Jared Lash]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

Yes, I mispoke. I shouldn't have said any time in recorded history. But by the middle ages there was no doubt. Widespread belief in a spherical Earth existed hundreds of years before Columbus despite what many schoolchildren are erroneously taught. However, knowledge of a spherical earth was developed by many civilizations long before that time. Any seafaring culture could judge the spherical nature of the earth by the horizon.

Stephen J. Gould had a great essay on this very topic, but I don't remember what book it was from.

 

[Hawaii Islander]

The funny thing is that in Africa, the most "uneducated" peasant usually speaks a minimum of three languages. In South Africa, for example, it is very common for Black South Africans to speak ten languages very well. The languages being all the major Bantu languages, Afrikaans, and English. Africans have been known to fix cars literally with sticks and strings. They can recycle and repair darn near anything also. In short, they function well in an environment that most Westerners cannot begin to handle.

Edit: I was focusing on education as defined by formal academic training in an institution of higher learning.

The focus of my comment revolved around the capacity of an individual to learn in a formal academic setting.

Your point supports my assertion that people in underdeveloped and/or impoverished regions of the world (not just in Africa) are as intellectually capable as any other person.

 

[NamelessOne]

okay, this might get some people mad, but I'd say this face-to-face too...

The brain is an adaptation to our environment. It is just as much an adaptation to our environment as our legs, or our skin. The brain determines how we do in various mental skills, which may or may not be easily measured. It does so at a high cost in calories, meaning that we need to eat more to support our brain even if we aren't using it. So, a smaller brain may be a genetic advantage in areas where it is not as helpful, and food is more scarce. Likewise, longer legs improve speed an efficiency of travel, while shorter ones save energy in cold and at rest. Skin color determines how easily we get sunburned, and how effectively we form vitamin D. Darker skin means that you don't burn as often, but need more sunlight to be healthy.

So, it's obvious that people have different lengths of legs. A lot (not all) of asian races have shorter legs, while there are a few inland asian races that are exceptionally tall. It's totally accepted that races that originate from further from the equator are lighter skinned. Why can't brains be similarly affected?

Equality has the same position in western society today that the church did in midievil times. It's taken as a fact of life, forms the basis of the governments, and if you question it too openly, you're excommunicated, shamed, and shunned. Scientists would question the church, but then they'd have to eat thier words and kiss the pope's feet (I can't remember the story exactly, but it's galileo and the heliocentric universe). It's just that now, with technology being what it is, you wouldn't be able to get away with wispering "but it moves".

I'm not defending the guy, though he's obviously smart. I'm defending the possibility of inequality.

 

[mike_v_s]

Well, I was going to go watch TV for a few minutes before bed...but it looks like the entertainment might be brewing right here.

Mike

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Edit: I was focusing on education as defined by formal academic training in an institution of higher learning.

The focus of my comment revolved around the capacity of an individual to learn in a formal academic setting.

Your point supports my assertion that people in underdeveloped and/or impoverished regions of the world (not just in Africa) are as intellectually capable as any other person.

My previous post was not meant to criticize you.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

...I'm not defending the guy, though he's obviously smart. I'm defending the possibility of inequality.

It might be possible that those who think they are superior are the dumb ones. If you want to be open to possibilities, be open to all possibilities.

 

[NamelessOne]

It might be possible that those who think they are superior are the dumb ones. If you want to be open to possibilities, be open to all possibilities.

Believe me, I had just that thought as I posted... and yeah, I am open to all possibilities that I don't have any reason to disregard.

I'm basing my opinion of inequality off my life with Asperger's syndrome. I'm certainly not equal to everyone else in every way. I'm vastly smarter, if only in a logic/science/math capacity, than most people. I'm also socially stupid at times, and not very good at understanding people. I think myself superior to the average person, but that's probably just me being vain. You guys are all smarter than me at some things, and I'm probably better than you at others. You're probably mostly better than me at bass, for example.

 

[morf]

It might be possible that those who think they are superior are the dumb ones. If you want to be open to possibilities, be open to all possibilities.

Not only possible, plausible too, and I'll add, more likely than the contrary.

Dont think so? History's proven me right so many times, I should hang myself for being white.

Do you all get the point now or shall I keep this up?

 

[mike_v_s]

It might be possible that those who think they are superior are the dumb ones. If you want to be open to possibilities, be open to all possibilities.

Including the possibilty that the MOST superior mind and body on this planet, nay...the universe, is a tall, kinda pale, 32 year old male of diluted Dutch ancestry currently residing in Slidell, LA and passing the time by building, razing, and rebuilding the tallest skyscraper ever concieved in his mind. He also might have a spellin' error or two in this post.

Mike

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Including the possibilty that the MOST superior mind and body on this planet, nay...the universe, is a tall, kinda pale, 32 year old male of diluted Dutch ancestry currently residing in Slidell, LA and passing the time by building, razing, and rebuilding the tallest skyscraper ever concieved in his mind. He also might have a spellin' error or two in this post.

Mike

 

[BellBottomBlues]

I lol'd

 

[hbarcat]

[Pet Peeve]
There was never a time in recorded history where scientists (or even laymen) believed the earth was flat. It's one of those undying science myths like "humans only use 10% of their brain" or "water drains in opposite directions in the northern and southern hemispheres."
[/Pet Peeve]

As for a correlation between ethnicity and intelligence, I can't even imagine a way to control/eliminate all the other variables involved in such a study so I can't imagine it to be feasible, let alone relevant.

Good post.

While the Earth's spherical nature was known to the ancient Greeks, there are still a few weirdo's today who apparently seriously insist that it's flat.

 

[Norwegianwood]

It´s highly surprising that this is able to generate a debate.

 

[Yngwie 4String]

Im actually reading the double helix as part of my course work. Watson is a jerk from what I read. He basically just ripped of Linus Pauling and got other people to figure out everything else for him.

 

[Jared Lash]

Im actually reading the double helix as part of my course work. Watson is a jerk from what I read. He basically just ripped of Linus Pauling and got other people to figure out everything else for him.

I don't know if I viewed him as a jerk after reading The Double Helix (remember Watson wrote it) but he definitely struck me more as an opportunist than a brillant scientist.

 

[Ericman197]

Im actually reading the double helix as part of my course work. Watson is a jerk from what I read. He basically just ripped of Linus Pauling and got other people to figure out everything else for him.

He got some ideas from Linus Pauling's alpha helix, but Pauling himself did not work on DNA. The helical DNA shape was confirmed by Franklin's crystallography. Some of the allegations against Watson & Crick may be true, but I don't lose much sleep over it.

Watson's statement about black vs. white intelligence isn't exactly wrong either. Studies have shown that whites perform better in IQ tests, and that intelligence is largely inherited. Whether this actually implies that whites are more intelligent overall is a different matter. The hypothesis that whites are smarter cannot be rejected, but it hasn't been proven to the satisfaction of the academic community either. As with most issues, time and further research are needed to make a conclusion.