Dragging myself kicking and screaming into DAWland. Help?

[DDXdesign]

Okay, this feels so weird to me.

I'm not an old man - I'll be 40 in a month and a half - but to me, computers and music creation don't make sense together. I mean, I love plenty of electronic music, and I wholly appreciate the advantages of digital recording for sure, but it breaks my brain every time I crack open a DAW. Once that screen is in front of me, I can't remember how to tie my shoes let alone mess with any of that stuff.

I made a whole electronic album on my own in 1999, but it was 100% hardware - sequencer, sampler, synth, and a digital 8-track from Roland. On other albums my bands have recorded, the only thing done at the desk was the recording-and-production part, no *creation* there.

So maybe you experts can help? I would like to get an interface and DAW so I can make my own music again.

- My computer is a Win10 laptop. IDK if I have USB3.0 but I know I at least have 2.0 and it's a gaming rig so the processing power should be alright.

- I would like to be able to record audio (e.g. my bass playing or vocals), AND to also create parts like drum tracks (using a grid and/or quantized inputs) and synth/pad/keyboard/sample tracks using sounds in the software or stored in my computer.

- Aptitude level examples:
*I don't know how plugins work, but I know that applying an effect to an existing track is like running it through an effects loop (to the effect and back) and recording the result.
*I don't know what the hell a bus is, but I know what normalization is.
*I cut my teeth on pattern-based building and arrangement (the Boss Dr-5 was the backbone of my 90s band; I did all the drums and keys programming and arranging on that little guy, and the band played over it) so I've never really explored just having an open scroll before me and throwing audio at it.
*Knowing my luck, I'll have difficulty with ANY software that does all this crap, but user friendly would help.

- My budget is smallish, but I can flex a little for something I can actually use.

- I don't need more than maybe a pair of inputs (stereo 1/4 and an XLR for a mic?), if that helps determine what type of interface I need.

- I don't want to have to buy a controller, but I might.

I'm sort of leaning toward Ableton Live because people say it's very easy, and I see that you can even drag audio bits right to a quantized note position, which helps especially when composing drums.

Whaddya think?

Sorry such a moron about this stuff.

 

[And I]

If you're not making arrangements for live performance I wouldn't recommend Ableton Live. If you are, it's a game-changer and is the only thing you should consider!!

You might look into a cheap presonus USB interface with a couple of inputs and use the DAW that comes with it called Studio One. I haven't used it much myself but I know people that do and if it was terribly complicated they wouldn't be able to, so the learning curve can't be TOO steep. The more you think about a DAW like a visualization of a tape machine where the tape spool is laid out horizontally on your computer screen, the easier it will be to wrap your head around it. Just because you record to a computer doesn't mean you're making "electronic music".

I would think any DAW in the world will let you set a tempo and set things to snap to 1/4 note, 1/8th note, etc. That's not an advanced feature.

When you say 2 inputs, one stereo 1/4" and one XLR for a mic--keep in mind 2 inputs means 2 mono inputs. so 1/4" stereo needs to have left plugged into one and right into the other.

I suggest you find something in your budget and go for it. There are hundreds of thousands of pages on the net that will describe in great detail how to do just about anything you might need or want to do with the software you are going to use. So get an interface and a DAW (if your interface doesn't come with a DAW, Reaper is cheap and good), and then start flexing your google-fu.

 

[Badwater]

I recorded digital starting back in 1997 to about 2004. A lot has changed in digital recording land since then. The DAWs have become more easy to work with, much more user friendly, and much more powerful at the same time. And the sound quality has also improved with more headroom in interfaces and their preamps. I just started back up recording early last year and I can tell you if you've done analog tape recording, or have recorded off a board, you'll have no problems getting back into digital recording.

Based on my experience, I would recommend the Presonus Studio one AudioBox 44VSL or 22VSL if you can still find them. If not the AudioBox USB ($99) will work just fine. They all come with the DAW "Studio One 3 Artist" Software. It has all the stuff you need to make home recordings, drum tracks/loops, etc... Best part is they update the DAW software free from time to time. Thus making the software easier to use. Your PC is more than enough for this interface and DAW. I have a similar power PC that runs the Studio One 3 DAW at less that 15% processing power when recording tracks at 96kHz/24bit. No latency.

Unlike back in the day there was no YouTube, today there is a ton of tutorials on the YouTube showing how to record and mix. Some make it look way more difficult than it really is. But if you have recorded in the past, you should have no problems hooking up a USB to the interface, plugging in your instruments/mics, and setting up your record levels on the DAW and interface.

The only challenge you may face is downloading the DAW software, and setting up the configuration for the interface. Nevertheless, Presonus has a forum that is very helpful, and their customer service is good.

The one thing you will need to make creating MIDI drum track easy is a Midi Keyboard controller. And they can be had for $100. I suspect you already have cables, and instruments.

If you want to record live sound, it's more involved, and you'll need good mics, and more cables, and some acoustic treatment depending on the size of the room, and volume level you intend to record at. And, you'll need to learn a lot of mic techniques, if you don't already know how to mic drums, and speaker cabinets, and vocals.

But other than the difference in format, all the same analog or mixing board console techniques are the exact same techniques used for digital recording using a interface and DAW. The major difference is Digital gives you more headroom for recording and rendering. As well as more options and features for mixing and mastering.

Anyway, good luck in your recording venture.

 

[ScottTunes]

I recommend REAPER for your DAW. Amazing community, as well as DAW! And the price is right! For under $100, you receive a very competent, easy to learn DAW, and a helpful community. You can even try it for free! Once you do, you'll be happy to pay the minimal fee!

As for an interface, I highly recommend spending a bit more $$ and go for an RME interface. You could begin with a 2 track model. But the software and drivers are similar to any other RME and will reduce the learning curve when moving up to the next level. Plus they make rock-solid gear!

I still use my PC/DAW as a tape deck of sorts, utilizing very little of the digital world's advantages. Preferring to keep it simple. But when I require editing, DAWs are far easier than tape!!!

 

[NoiseNinja]

Reaper is your answer, it is free!

REAPER | Audio Production Without Limits

Or rather it has a 60 days trial period after which absolutely everything will work as it has done all the time, which means it works as if you had bought it both under the trial period and after, and you will still be able to update to never versions for free.

It is dead cheap though compared to other DAW's, so I would advice you to buy it even then, to show appreciation for the makers kind offer of practically making it available for free.

You get a lot of decent VST's with it as well, and you can find more free VST's on the internet, ranging from horrible to excellent quality.

Here for example: VST 4 FREE - Free Audio Plug-ins Archives

I personally prefer Reaper over Cubase, which I also got.

It got all the features a full priced DAW would, and personally I think it has a nice intuitive user interface as well.

 

[DirkP]

Okay, this feels so weird to me.

I'm not an old man - I'll be 40 in a month and a half - but to me, computers and music creation don't make sense together. I mean, I love plenty of electronic music, and I wholly appreciate the advantages of digital recording for sure, but it breaks my brain every time I crack open a DAW. Once that screen is in front of me, I can't remember how to tie my shoes let alone mess with any of that stuff.

I made a whole electronic album on my own in 1999, but it was 100% hardware - sequencer, sampler, synth, and a digital 8-track from Roland. On other albums my bands have recorded, the only thing done at the desk was the recording-and-production part, no *creation* there.

So maybe you experts can help? I would like to get an interface and DAW so I can make my own music again.

- My computer is a Win10 laptop. IDK if I have USB3.0 but I know I at least have 2.0 and it's a gaming rig so the processing power should be alright.

- I would like to be able to record audio (e.g. my bass playing or vocals), AND to also create parts like drum tracks (using a grid and/or quantized inputs) and synth/pad/keyboard/sample tracks using sounds in the software or stored in my computer.

- Aptitude level examples:
*I don't know how plugins work, but I know that applying an effect to an existing track is like running it through an effects loop (to the effect and back) and recording the result.
*I don't know what the hell a bus is, but I know what normalization is.
*I cut my teeth on pattern-based building and arrangement (the Boss Dr-5 was the backbone of my 90s band; I did all the drums and keys programming and arranging on that little guy, and the band played over it) so I've never really explored just having an open scroll before me and throwing audio at it.
*Knowing my luck, I'll have difficulty with ANY software that does all this crap, but user friendly would help.

- My budget is smallish, but I can flex a little for something I can actually use.

- I don't need more than maybe a pair of inputs (stereo 1/4 and an XLR for a mic?), if that helps determine what type of interface I need.

- I don't want to have to buy a controller, but I might.

I'm sort of leaning toward Ableton Live because people say it's very easy, and I see that you can even drag audio bits right to a quantized note position, which helps especially when composing drums.

Whaddya think?

Sorry such a moron about this stuff.

I'm a software engineer since decades and have very similar experiences with DAWs.
I know you have a windows laptop, but what I can recommend is an iPad with Auria.

My allergy against laptops and desktops is related to being a bassplayer AND operating a DAW at the same time.
If I would be a passionate audio engineer and would record other people playing I would use a DAW and a laptop or desktop.

But something within me prevents me from even starting to play if I have to start a computer prior to playing and this stupid mouse mouse in my right hand...

The iPad doesn't disturb me at all. Auria is very easy to use and offers everything I need (good effects, synth, drums etc.).
If you can't find a cure for your disease, maybe give it a try.

 

[verstft]

I use Ableton Live for sketching ideas or more midi and programming based music. For tracking or mixing I use Logic (Mac only).
The DAWs all have pros/cons. I think if you are just getting started, a traditional ProTools or similar DAW would be your best bet for learning good gain staging and setting levels for digital recording.

Ableton is very very different than everything else in terms of workflow and I don't fully trust the faders and metering inside Ableton live. There is built-in limiters for headroom on all the faders and the program encourages you to slam all the tracks and make things very loud right away which is not great for traditional mixing.

If you're old school and like working with MPC which I do...I have an MPD218 which is just some good rubber pads. I can do everything else with the drum rack in Ableton. I have my pads prepopulated with hi quality actual 10bit MPC drum samples.

I make 90's sampled based bangers and I can basically make a sketch or flip a sample very quickly then add my own synths, bassline etc... I started a "one beat a day" personal project a while back and Ableton is absolutely crucial to my workflow in that regard.

Here's my very very minimal setup:

computer
audio interface with dsp
cheap monitors
good set of cans (beyerdynamic DT880pro)
MPD218

Small cheap keyboard midi controller.

 

[DDXdesign]

Thank you for all the responses, guys. I'm seeing a couple votes for presonus studio one, a couple for reaper, and one for Auria for IOS. I do have an iPad already, so I can look into Auria as well as the others. In the meantime, I've been looking into Bitwig as well, which is similar to Ableton.

I suppose I keep gravitating toward things that look like Ableton because it seems to have a "here is a little gridded container, put stuff in it to make noise" feel to it, which again, makes more sense to me than staring at a blank line/"piano roll"... I get the same mental block when looking at a blank canvas sometimes - if I don't already know exactly what I want to draw, it's a non-starter.

@verstft - I never learned how to use an MPC of any type. They were all prohibitively expensive 20 years ago when I was using drum machines and stuff. I could barely figure out how to use my cheapo Boss sampler at the time!

 

[msiner]

Last year I bought a Tascam US-2x2 interface that came with Ableton Live Lite and Sonar X3 LE. I also tried Reaper. Sonar and Reaper both felt, to me, clunky and poorly designed compared to Ableton, but I was able to get slightly lower latency in Reaper. I have also tried and liked Tracktion T5 (a free DAW). Besides the unique workflow, the other thing Ableton Live Lite has is an assortment of built-in effects (filter, compressor, etc) and instruments (drum racks, sampler, synth). These are much quicker and easier to use than VSTs. I also like the Tascam interface quite a bit. It feels sturdy and even looks cool. I can plug my bass directly into it and it sounds good.

The big downside to Ableton is the steep upgrade path. If the track and scene limitations to Live Lite are limiting you, it will cost a lot to upgrade. Bitwig looks to have a similar feel and workflow, but I don't remember Bitwig being noticeably cheaper.

 

[DDXdesign]

Hell, just for the time being I might drop 5 bucks and get garageband for my ipad, at least start to re-familiarize myself with the basics while I research the good stuff.

 

[verstft]

Hell, just for the time being I might drop 5 bucks and get garageband for my ipad,

Frankly, while I respect other people's opinions..making music on an Ipad is a PITA. I think an Ipad can be a great tool as a control surface or a virtual "sketchbook" for ideas on the go. They are also great practice tools when you don't have an amp handy.

On the other hand, using it as your daw is just very very roundabout and I advise against it. I could mop my floors with a toothbrush and tell people it can be done..but why would I make life harder on myself?

Sorry for the rant.

 

[DDXdesign]

Frankly, while I respect other people's opinions..making music on an Ipad is a PITA. I think an Ipad can be a great tool as a control surface or a virtual "sketchbook" for ideas on the go. They are also great practice tools when you don't have an amp handy.

On the other hand, using it as your daw is just very very roundabout and I advise against it. I could mop my floors with a toothbrush and tell people it can be done..but why would I make life harder on myself?

Sorry for the rant.

No, I get you. I've got an iPad Pro because I'm an illustrator and Apple *finally* made a tablet with a real pen/digitizer, that for me surpassed the surface pro (and the galaxy note 12 is no longer made) when my galaxy note 10 reached its last legs. I'm also looking for this new venture to be "easy" rather than "good" right at the start, just so I don't throw away time and money starting up with zero to show for it. (watching little things about, say, using gband on ipad, make it look very easy to get started in)

It doesn't matter to me whether it's the ipad or my laptop or whatever that's going to be the brain of the operation, because I still have to get software, an interface, headphones, monitors, mics, cables, etc etc etc etc etc and I might have just talked myself out of the whole venture because there are just too many ***king options.

 

[sqlb3rn]

I use Reaper. It has the little grid container which is known as MIDI.

When you create a track, you can arm it for recording and record whatever you have plugged in... or you can insert items onto the track, like MIDI. When you insert a new MIDI item onto a track, you can double click it and an editor opens like you are probably used to seeing, with a piano roll and grids for timing. You can adjust the grid resolution to eight notes, sixteenth notes, thirty second, etc... and change between straight timing, triplet, swing, etc. And then you have to put some kind of virtual instrument VSTi on the track... like Addictive Drums or a keyboard, that can be played using your MIDI triggers you create on the grid.

You can do more advanced stuff with it too. Like an orchestra VSTi I was working with had many different instruments, so I had one track with the VSTi on it, and then multiple MIDI tracks each to control one instrument (channel) routed to the main VSTi track.

Some DAWs like FL Studio (aka Fruity Loops) use step sequencers to create a measure of music that you can cookie cutter stamp into the timeline/editor... as opposed to just a ribbon of MIDI on a track as long as you want.

 

[verstft]

HA! Well I certainly didn't want to discourage you. Use whatever you think is going to help you be creative....that's all that matters.

You already have a gaming PC you have a great platform for whatever you need it to do...you just need to figure out what that THING is.

DAW's can be dauntingly complex but you need to figure out a very simple workflow that works for you. Took me a few weeks to figure out a great template. Now every time I open my DAW it's all loaded up for me. I can get straight to my business of expressing myself. I might even have a copy of Ableton Lite laying around...I always get them when I buy gear and I never use it since i have the full shebang...

Sorry about the rant but I just know there's a lot of shortcomings with an IOS device. Apple designed IOS from the start as a media consumption tool and they are spending a ton of advertising money to convince people that they are actually media production tools (shot on iPhone...garage band ios etc...) but they are closed devices.

IOS Apps works great until your friends come over to your place with a hard drive with some songs he's been working on and you spend the next 3 hours trying to figure out how to get it on the iPad and end up having him it email to you because you can't figure it out and then it bounces back because the files were too big etc... The simplicity makes easy things very hard or impossible and very limiting.

 

[40Hz]

I'd suggest a small Focusrite Scarlett interface to start with. If you're learning, invest some money on:

an online course (I can recommend this one if you're starting at ground zero)
a good book or dvd if you're a little more advanced (recommend: Alan Parsons Art & Science Of Sound Recording)

- or head over to YouTube and check out the Home Recording Revolution channel for some really good no-BS direction.



-----

Software-wise Reaper is a good starting point.

I use something called Invalid Link Removed which is offered by Harrison Consoles. It's inexpensive, but some pieces you'll probably want are paid add-ons, so it's not the cheapest thing out there. But I love the way it works and sounds. And they do native versions for Windows, MacOS, and Linux - which is an important consideration to me. (And probably nobody else. )

 

[MonetBass]

Recording digitally is so much easier than analog. +1 to the PreSonus USB interface; I've been using one for years. The dual lo-z/hi-z inputs and the built-in phantom power are great features. And the software (mine came with Cubase 4.0 LE) is pretty intuitive. Just dive in - you'll be glad you did.

 

[JRA]

Whaddya think?

DAWs are daunting! going from your older setup to a computer screen (and interface) is a trip. but it's also challenging and fun: you are going to have a learning curve (no way around it!) and the internet is your friend: "how do i ___insert problem___ in ___insert software___? eg: how do i put EQ on a track in cubase?

you can use google for all of it! digital recording with a DAW is pretty cool stuff! good luck!

i'm using pro tools, reaper, traction, some NCH stuff and some odds-and-ends software(s). different programs for different aspects of recording, mixing, mastering yada yada. i switched from tape machines (digital) to computer screens, and it took me several test 'sessions' to get comfortable enough to guide the software as opposed to the other way around. once you know a little bit = you're off!

 

[DDXdesign]

Sorry about the rant but I just know there's a lot of shortcomings with an IOS device. Apple designed IOS from the start as a media consumption tool and they are spending a ton of advertising money to convince people that they are actually media production tools (shot on iPhone...garage band ios etc...) but they are closed devices.

IOS Apps works great until your friends come over to your place with a hard drive with some songs he's been working on and you spend the next 3 hours trying to figure out how to get it on the iPad and end up having him it email to you because you can't figure it out and then it bounces back because the files were too big etc... The simplicity makes easy things very hard or impossible and very limiting.

Hey it's all good; I'm not a fan of IOS in general because of all the weirdo limitations that feel arbitrary at best... I just also thought it might be nice to be able to F with a mix or a composition or whatever while I'm sitting somewhere random and have nothing but my ipad with me.

I'll probably end up dabbling in both IOS and PC versions of this whole DAW thing just to wrap my brain around it, then advance with whatever's comfortable.

And yes, youtube is going to be my lifeline, fo sho.

That said, I am sort of cursed in the technology department. I know how to use things pretty decently, but when something goes wrong, it's at some fundamental singularity level where literally nobody has ever heard of that thing going wrong before. Has happened to me with everything from PC software and hardware to cars and phones and beyond. I can't count the number of times an expert (SW/HW company rep, engineer, etc) has helpfully instructed me to push a button or select a menu option... which simply wasn't there at all, prompting the "chorus of shoulds" (it should be there/it shouldn't be doing that/etc) and of course nobody ever heard of that problem before or since. It's just become hilarious to me after all this time.

 

[DDXdesign]

- or head over to YouTube and check out the Home Recording Revolution channel for some really good no-BS direction.

Just watched this and really appreciate your showing it to me. I like this because it gave specific models with no alternatives, just "this thing is good enough. this thing is good enough for this other part." Which for somebody in my position is actually way more helpful.

 

[40Hz]

Just watched this and really appreciate your showing it to me. I like this because it gave specific models with no alternatives, just "this thing is good enough. this thing is good enough for this other part." Which for somebody in my position is actually way more helpful.

Yeah. I liked his approach too. You can spend so much time looking for "the best" that you never get started. Sometimes you're better off just getting something and start doing it. It's like my mechanical engineer Dad used to say: "Most times it's smarter to put the polish on when it's on the way out the door rather than when it's first coming in."

If you get a chance, check out this video when you have an hour to spare. Interesting insights from two of the big names in the recording world. It's amazing how little things like equipment concerns (other than "use good equipment") factor into their equation when they're involved with a recording project. Unlike the amateur who is always wishing and hoping for that last bit of kit that will finally allow them to "do it for real."