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Double Bass Drones/Midi play alongs in Logic? or whatever is best

#2
Just create a 1-bar track in Logic, fill in the note you want on some suitable softsynth, and loop it. You want a synth sound with no vibrato or reverb.

If you have a keyboard, get a latching footswitch, plug in to the sustain pedal input, set up some sound with infinite sustain, play a note and hit the switch, it'll drone until you hit the switch again, no track required.
 
#4
There are many places online to find full sequences of midi play alongs. Bruce Bransby had the entire rep of major excerpts sequenced for his students many many years ago. If you want to know if this works, look at how many of his students have won jobs...

Drones are nice but try tuning a major 7th against a lone root. Your ears lie to you. Pitch-for-pitch sequences are one of the best tools we have, and are (duh) vastly superior to drones.

Buy the light version of Sibelius. It comes with an application that scans pdf's. You can take anything in the world and make it into a play along midi file with minimal effort.
 
#7
I know I'm "droning" on about this but why place such emphasis on an external crutch like a drone or tuner when what you ultimately need is a strong internal sense of pitch and structure.
The word Scale comes from "Scala", the Italian word for Ladder? Each scale or broken chord we play has a structure like rungs of a ladder that can simply be applied with certainty to any given starting note. Scales are built around two tetrachords, groups of four notes that overlap with other scales (eg, the first 4 notes of C Major are the last 4 notes of F Major). The Major scale is Tone-Tone-Semitone and Tone-Tone-Semitone with a tone between each group. Harmonic and Melodic Minors each have their own specific structure. The same with Major, minor, Dominant and Diminished chords.

The only note I think you need is an A to tune to. Once you have tuned as accurately as you can using harmonics then perhaps check with a tuner to see and examine small differences in pitch. Then build the first tetra chord of D Major carefully. D and G are already in tune. Carefully examine where you place E and F sharp When you are satisfied that you can hear the T-T-St move it up 1/2 a tone and repeat for E flat, then hear it applied to any note.

Now add the second tetra chord to finish D Major scale. Tune A and 1st octave D to open D and , based on studying the lower tetrachord, picture and examine accurately placing the B and C sharp. Then play the whole scale with a short pause between each tetrachord. Try to prehear the notes coming towards you with confidence.

The end game should be to apply each of these structures with confidence and certainty to any chosen starting note. If you repeat the octave notes you can confidently end up playing 3-octave scales without wandering out of tune.By all means use a tuner or drone to check occasionally but,like a metronome, they are external crutches. You should build confidence from within because you can't take them with you on stage!!

Also, the better the people you play with the easier intonation becomes IMO.

Best wishes,

DP
 
#8
+1

If your instrument is properly in tune, ringing your notes against open strings and/or harmonics is also a good way to check intonation. BUT you do have to understand the ways in which those harmonics are misleading; harmonics on a string instrument are not absolutely precise intervals anyway, and any given intonation scheme will differ from the pythagorean ideal intervals as well.

I have found a strobe tuner (not a needle type, you need the fast response of a strobe) absolutely invaluable for learning the subtle differences between equal temperament and any other scheme you might need; string players tend to play in just intonation, all else being equal, which makes for a great deal of tension with keyboards unless you correct for the differences. BUT the tuner isn't something you want to become a crutch or indeed something you use by default on learning new music.
 
#9
Even tuning your strings off of harmonics relative to 440 is faulty, as the harmonics are actually out of tune string to string... 10 cents out of tune twice is a horribly out of tune string.

Use absolutes, and your ears as well as your hands improve dramatically. Rely on your ear as your sole point of reference, and your hands and pitch suffer.

You can argue all day about not using pitch reference, but there were likely people who argued against using metronomes for time reference, not so long ago... The proof is in the job winners.
 
#10
But tempered pitch, used to create 12 equal 1/2 tones, is itself a compromise to allow all scales to be played on a keyboard. Even on a well-tuned concert grand piano I can hear the compromises.

I repeat, when we go on stage or to audition, we have to be (a) able to tune our bass as best we can to a given A, (b) adjust our pitch relative to to the other instruments we are playing with, and (c) devote our most attention to the job in hand. We have to be able to pre-hear notes before we play them if time permits so that if we are slightly out we can adjust, either instantly or during the next few notes. All this requires both confidence and flexibilty.

I am not saying there isn't a place for a good tuner or drone occasionally but IMO it should not be constantly on the music stand beside what you are practicing, like Jimminy Cricket and Pinnochio. How do you build confidence in the structure of a scale? If you constantly use a drone, say open D string for D major, what happens when you turn off the drone that you have been focusing on? Are you, the student, left feeling more confident of ANY scale or chord structure.

What I am suggesting is more like the time-honoured European system of Solfege, but pausing between each tetrachord, in order for students (and professionals?) to gain confidence in structures that apply to any starting note. I liken it to playing musical darts,aiming for a series of bullseyes that are coming towards you and are strong in your mind. Perhaps some of our European colleagues could share their thoughts about Solfege?

I disagree with the claim that using harmonics to tune the bass by ear risks putting you so far out of tune across the strings - unless you are insensitive, or a beginning student with no previous musical experience, or you are on stage beside the tuba player warming up. The little watch-sized clip on tuners are not great then, but better than nothing.

All this makes me sound like a Luddite but I am not.

DP

ps Some advice I was once given when playing with piano accompaniment. Try tuning your open strings to the same name notes in the middle of the piano keyboard and see if playing in tune with it is easier. This will certainly put your harmonics askew, chicagodoubler!!
 
#12
DP,

Regarding confidence, there is absolutely no better way to build confidence than to have firm muscle memory backing up your ear. The best way to do that is to train consistently with pitch reference. Our ears lie to us constantly. Regarding temperament, it is far easier to adjust to a piano (or any ensemble) from a point of absolute reference than to do so starting on shaky ground. Note- wind players train to play the different notes in the chord flat or sharp. We just stab around in the dark for the most part...:hiding:

I'm not sure that your stance makes you a luddite, my friend, but to deny the benefits of an advantageous resource is not a side of the argument I personally choose to stand on.

Again, ears are faulty, and it is very easy to lie to oneself about pitch. We as bassists have a nasty reputation (second only to violists) within the orchestra for playing strings out of tune. It is my not so humble opinion that we simply MUST use every resource available, and elevate the reputation of our noble instrument.
 
#13
Not that I want to start World War 3 over this but I don't think my approach leaves one's intonation on shaky ground. Quite the opposite is intended. My intention is to train the ear then use the ear , not so much an outside source, to train the muscles.

I will try your method if you will trial mine. Fair deal?
Regards,
DP
 
#14
This isn't an either/or issue. You should have extensive Solfege training in order to be a successful musician. Nobody is doubting that. Training with midi files of excerpts is just a tool to maximize accuracy with regards to proper time and intonation. The technique is not a substitute for proper ear training and musicianship. It's not the most musical exercise in the world, but hey--that's what score studying is for.
 
#16
Here's another path to take that is an in-between: sing the drone and hold that pitch while your hands play whatever you're working on. Works for me. Best part of it: it's free! and when you hit it right, your whole body resonates.

You can use open strings & harmonics to check if your vocal intonation is off often.
 
#17
Peter Ferretti said:
This isn't an either/or issue. You should have extensive Solfege training in order to be a successful musician. Nobody is doubting that. Training with midi files of excerpts is just a tool to maximize accuracy with regards to proper time and intonation. The technique is not a substitute for proper ear training and musicianship. It's not the most musical exercise in the world, but hey--that's what score studying is for.
Click to expand...

+1. Everything that helps you get better pitch is good, be it drones, playalong cd's or whatever. I think too much time here (and in many other topics) is spend on a too analytical discussion about just intonation. Discussing it too much will only get people less secure about their pitch and playing and isn't helping the OP in getting better pitch.
 
#18
chicagodoubler, I actually agree with Peter too. I am not saying there is "my way or the highway" for one moment. I have never taken much use of a drone or tuner seriously, probably because I find them just as annoying as a metronome - only used in small doses, eg D major scale using Open D as reference. Perhaps you have always used, taught and prefer drones, tuner and metronome?

Maybe a new thread (or threads such as for Beginners, Advancing Students and Professionals)) in the Pedagogy forum is the best place to discuss the broad topic of intonation, how to teach it and how to achieve a high standard. It might attract lots more ideas and suggestions from other teachers and professionals, drawing on their own experience and how they teach their students. I take Les Fret's point about how discussions like this can be inappropriate and perhaps confusing in this forum.

Cheers all,
DP
 
#19
David,

I find drones, sequences, and metronomes annoying in the same way that kale and jogging are annoying.

If you want to improve your rhythm, use a rhythmic reference (metronome.) If you want to improve your pitch, use a pitch reference (drone/sequence.)

I thought my pitch was pretty good until I started playing with sequences. Give it a try. Just like kale and jogging, it's a little unpleasant at first, but after a while, the benefits become undeniable. It is a curse from above- most of the things that are good for us are hard pills to swallow.
 

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