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Drop tunings = harder to learn theory and such?

S

Steel

Jul 18, 2006
21
2
#1
So I've recently restarted taking lessons because I have the fire again due to being in a band. With the premise of learning theory, as well as having someone to slap my fingers when I'm using sloppy technique, so on. Right now the band is tuned in drop C, (metal, gee who'da guessed?) but my teacher is a bit apprehensive of the drop tuning due to the various patterns being different from the C to G string vs G-> high C, high C->F. I'm not sure I'm entirely convinced, and *I'm* apprehensive about tuning to C standard and relearning the songs at my current skill level.

Has anyone else had problems learning... well music playing in a drop tuning vs standard?
 
#2
if you're only going to play in drop tunings, I say learn the scale/arp patterns in drop tuning.

Or if you're on a five string, just learn the patterns like a 4-string player would at first, and work the 5th string in later?
 
#4
Thank goodness we all pretty much play from standard tuning. And I like to just stay in standard tuning.

If I re-tune all my boxes and patterns are of no use to me. When we do get a piece of sheet music that notates it is to be capoed (capo 3 play in D) or it's in a non-standard tuning I ask the keyboard what key they will be using. And that is what I use.

Dropped D (lower one string) makes power chords easier for the guitards. I'd just stay like I am. All strings dropped a 1/2 step makes it easy for the vocalist. If that is what they are doing I would stay in standard tuning and play the key one semi-tone flat.

Now if your band plays everything in that same altered tuning you have a decision to make. I'm with your instructor not wanting you to learn how to play using altered tunings. Altered tunings would be fine while playing with that band, but, what will you do about all the how to play books being in standard tuning... Or you go to a jamming session and the song is called in D... If you are tuned flat then you have to remember to sharp the D to fit in with the other guys...

I hate altered tuning. Of course that's MO.
 
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#5
Personally, I find transitioning from standard tuning to drop-D (or lower equivalents) almost seamless. When I'm in drop-D I just remember that the note I want on the lowest string is up two frets further. Another way of thinking of the low string in a drop tuning is as a mirror of the third string (D in standard), which is tuned the same in both tunings.

If it were me, I'd keep my bass tuned to DGCF (standard a whole step down) for practicing scales and arpeggios and the like, and then drop the low string down to C for practicing the band's songs and playing with the band. I've never practiced scales or arpeggios in drop-D, but for me it's such a small change that I can adapt my standard-tuning patterns on-the-fly without much struggle. Everybody's different, though, so experiment and find out what works for you.
 
#7
Interesting question, and several good responses above...I'll add a thought or two...

The notes that make up any song are the same notes, regardless of how far your tuning knobs are twisted. The guitars may need to rely on different tuning schemes to get the sounds and chord patterns that they're looking for, but it's highly doubtful that you are playing more than one note at a time often enough to make this matter at all.

If you play the right notes, then the right notes get played. Plus, when you go to play with anyone else in the world, you won't be the only one at the session with that tuning. Sure, people have played the same instruments tuned in very different ways, but ask yourself if you have a compelling reason to do so.

Part of the reason to learn some music theory is so that you can play any song in any key...that's why solfege is helpful (Do Re Mi...)

The only times I change tuning for a band is when they all tune to standard tuning, but drop the pitch to something like A430. There's no real way to get around that, even on a fretless.

All the best,

Shane
 
#8
Get a new teacher. One that teaches music and not patterns.

I had one student who played in Drop C and all his basses were tuned that way. I would teach him theory on my standard tuned four strings.

I learned my theory on guitar from a pianist and then applied it to my bass playing. Theory is theory, it isn't for a specific instrument.
 
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#9
At the risk of stating the obvious: nobody is born with the ability to play in altered tunings. It is a skill we have to learn and practice if we want to be good at it. There are teachers who specialize in altered tunings (I took some very helpful lessons with Michael Manring) so if that's a skill you're interested in acquiring, the path has been blazed for you by others.

Other than "learn from someone who is already an expert at the skill you're trying to improve" all I can do is parrot Jason's advice above, that music is all about the notes, not the shapes on the fretboard. :)
 
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#11
I see both sides of the argument... On one hand, I can see why the teacher would want to keep patterns the same between all strings. IT would make improvising lines easier. And I've been doing a lot of improvising over the old bassists lines; I'm not satisfied in chugging the root. Any idiot can do that.

On the other hand, all the songs are originals and all in drop-C. And I've spent 90% of my bass-playing life in drop-D that I feel that scooting up two frets on the fat string to get the same notes is just something I'm used to doing. I realize that drop tunings are for the 'tardists benefit, but at my current standing I do a lot of finger reading of him, because he has even less than my minuscule theory knowledge. Or scale knowledge, whatever you want to call it.

Hmm, tough choice. I suppose in the end should I even get to that point of "fret-vision" or whatever one wants to call it, it wouldn't matter in the end, the right notes are the right ones regardless of where they are.

Also: I realize theory isn't instrument or tuning specific. I think is thought process in teaching is where he can teach me some specific thing about theory in terms of intervals and such, and then when displaying it and I play for myself, the "pattern" would be the same between each string, instead of "looking" different. I think. Perhaps I'm wrong.
 
#12
interesting. Ive got a couple different projects. One ive had for a long time, the tardist plays downtuned a half step with a drop c#. so C#G#C#F#, its fairly ******** and annoying. All original with a few covers. Anyway, when I first learned the songs, playing along to mp3s, he neglected to tell me that he was downtuned. I learned them in standard tuning and played to them that way. Once we got togeather after a short time i matched his tuning mostly because I play using a lot of open string work and play intervals quite a bit which are easier to do in that tuning. Also, its easier to jam and do improv. Its still ******** and I hate what it does to my tone but it is what it is. Point is that I learned the notes of the song first, then changed the tuning. It gives me no end of pleasure to play everything off my A string and above with just a few accents on the E string, hes not used to hearing any tone out of the bassist, so hes like "why cant you just play em all down low...." um no, you vill hear ze bass und you vill like it"
 
#13
I play bass and guitar. I play guitar in drop tuning most of the time. When I play guitar The bassist i play with stays in standard tuning and is able to play all the notes correctly. He asks what the root/note is and plays along. If you know your fret notes and have them memorized then you should be able to play with anyone in any tuning. good luck.
 
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#15
if you know the names of the notes you are playing, theory will be no harder on a drop tuned instrument.
what will be harder is copying your teacher's fingering. Does that matter? kinda.

there's 3 parts to "knowing" a bit of theory on the bass:
  • the shape on the finger board
  • the possible note names
  • and the sound

the first part will require someone to translate fingerboard shapes from standard to your drop whatever tuning.
any fingering (or tab) he presents to you will not match your tuning.
your teacher probably just doesn't want that additional headache.

there are useful advantages to learning things in standard tuning. just tune standard for the lesson.
figure out how you need to change what you learn for the drop tuning on your own, you'll be wiser for it.
 
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#18
mambo4 said:
if you know the names of the notes you are playing, theory will be no harder on a drop tuned instrument.
what will be harder is copying your teacher's fingering. Does that matter? kinda.

there's 3 parts to "knowing" a bit of theory on the bass:
  • the shape on the finger board
  • the possible note names
  • and the sound

the first part will require someone to translate fingerboard shapes from standard to your drop whatever tuning.
any fingering (or tab) he presents to you will not match your tuning.
your teacher probably just doesn't want that additional headache.

there are useful advantages to learning things in standard tuning. just tune standard for the lesson.
figure out how you need to change what you learn for the drop tuning on your own, you'll be wiser for it.
Click to expand...
notes are notes and the sound attached to the note irregardless of the shape on the fingerboard. Im sure any bassist who is blind would agree. I suffer from the habit of looking at what im playing too. Taking piano lessons, my first teacher would swat the top of my hands when she caught me looking at them occasionally. learn the sound, the pitch and the note. they dont change, patterns do
 
#19
If your tuned in 4th then the pattern are all the same anyway ... the only thing is ... you need to be aware of where the notes are ... if he asks you to play an open E ... your open E will be somewhere else in drop tuning. Just saying.
 
#20
I wouldn't say to "ditch" patterns per-se. Obviously the pattern changes quite a bit when the E string and the A string become more than a 4th apart (I'm just going to refer to the strings in their standard tunings to avoid confusion), but from the A string to the G string, the pattern stays the same, but depending on how you downtune, every note becomes transposed that many steps. If you maintain an awareness of this transposition, it's not hard to know where the notes on the fretboard are, and you can still use your patterns to make fills and runs easily. Most metal guitarists I've met wrote their riffs as if they were in Drop D (so they kept their chords the same as if they were in a standard tuning) and due to the nature of the way drop tuning works, they could play said chords in any other drop tuning and have it work, with that heavier sound.

It seems a bit daunting to try and think of all of this one the fly, but it does come naturally with practice, eventually.
 

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