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Drum kit too big?

#21
posijon said:
Here's the problem:
His drum kit is huge. It's one of those Peart-esque kits with 5 rack toms, two kick drums, a rack, and a bajillion cymbals. ?
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The 80s called, they want their drum kit back.

Seriously... that's like the drum equivalent of a 100-watt Marshall guitar stack.

:rollno:

That sucks bro. That kit would take up the entire stage at some of the venues we play. I gig with a fair number of good to great drummers and NONE of them rolls with two kick drums anymore. And only one guy with close to that many toms. I'm really lucky in that the drummer I work with most of the time now plays a 4-piece kit and the guy before him did likewise.
 
#22
groooooove said:
does he intend to gig all of that..?

every drummer i know hates bringing out more than a "ringo" setup.. rack tom, floor tom, snare, bass, two cymbals, hats. anything more than that is extra.
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There is a lot to be said for it. Kinda like bringing a huge pedal board (or boards) it can distract and confuse short sets... Plus the setup time needn't be hurried so the drummer can get 'settled' and get the kit spot on in every way. I think two toms and a double pedal and you've got a fully capable metal kit. :p
 
#23
As a drummer that played that type of music I can tell you from the sound board a pile of toms turns into mush in that scenario. No mic and the small toms get drowned out unless their cranked tight like quads in drum corp.

Hardcore doesn't usually have the breaks like metal, speed metal, death, etc... where you can drum around the kit on the guitar breaks and be heard.

old school hardcore, oi, punk, etc... - When the band kicks in it's bass and snare... and much shorter drum breaks... "generally"

I used a one 12" or 13" rack tom (head very tight) and one floor tom (head loose), bass drum (head even looser)... this gave me tonal separation, I wanted people to know when I was playing a tom vs my bass drum.
 
#24
ReIgnition said:
As a drummer that played that type of music I can tell you from the sound board a pile of toms turns into mush in that scenario. No mic and the small toms get drowned out unless their cranked tight like quads in drum corp.

Hardcore doesn't usually have the breaks like metal, speed metal, death, etc... where you can drum around the kit on the guitar breaks and be heard.

old school hardcore, oi, punk, etc... - When the band kicks in it's bass and snare... and much shorter drum breaks... "generally"

I used a one 12" or 13" rack tom (head very tight) and one floor tom (head loose), bass drum (head even looser)... this gave me tonal separation, I wanted people to know when I was playing a tom vs my bass drum.
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If it works well, that's awesome. I can't see the use of enormous kits outside of prog or some jazz... the simpler kit can still produce a colossal variety of groove and sound, enough for almost any kind of music. ;)

I guess you could compare the big kits to a bassist or guitarist switching multiple instruments, or double/triple necked instruments:

aledn1.jpg


Good drumming on a standard kit: (also awsome bass and everything else)
 
#25
Less is more.

Best live band I've seen in years was a 4-person original act I saw last weekend. Bassist played one [4-string] bass the whole show. Guitarist played one electric, switching to acoustic for a spotlight solo. Drummer had a kick, snare, top rack tom and a floor tom and maybe 4 cymbals counting the hat. They were playing extremely complex music and sounded freakin great. Gobs of space in the mix for every instrument.
 
#27
my rule of thumb is to let the other musicians use whatever they want...since its their gear. i just wouldnt be a fan if someone gave me unasked advice on what i need to bring/use as it would make me feel like they dont think i know what im doing. leave the drumming up to him imho
 
#28
I here ya'. This is our drummer Mike. He is an AWESOME player
but sometimes I feel he has to hit all the pieces of his set during
every song. We are a 3 peice Alt Rock band so there is always room
for hime to play a ton of stuff but that doesn't mean he should. LOL.
I like when we play gigs where he has to use a house set and is
confined to a 5 piece set. I have NEVER been able to convince a
drummer that less is more.

Link Removed
 
#32
hdracer said:
This.
We do not like being told what bass or amp to use.
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Depends. The band I joined last year asked me to give up a 900-watt, 8x10 concert bass rig for a 150w, 1x12 combo cause they wanted to simplify load-in/load-out, save weight and space in the trailer, create more room on stage and lower the stage volume. I have full PA support and IEM on every gig so to downsize my stage rig was a no-brainer. I did it willingly and everyone (myself included) has been thrilled with the results.

Bottom line, some bassists are more willing than others to sacrifice their own gratification for the common good. I expect drummers are the same.
 
#33
David1234 said:
Funny. I feel like a drummer shouldn't need a very large kit to get the job done, but then when I hear people telling me a bass only needs 4 strings - when I play 5-string basses - I kinda get ticked at them.

I don't recommend telling this drummer to downsize, unless you can do so *veyr* subtly and put up with any answer he gives (such as No). If you don't like his playing don't hire him - that shoudl be the only measure you use.
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+1/2 - since I like a large kit. After all it's show-business and a big kit is impressive to most of the audience.

If it becomes a problem, then you should address the problem, not force a solution on him. For example, if you only have 15 minutes to set up, you should tell him that, not tell him he needs to bring less drums. If he can set up in 15 minutes, fit on the stage, and carry his weight, then leave it alone. If it takes longer than 15 minutes, you tell him that 15 minutes is all he has and HE has to figure out how to meet that time limit.

Now, you might want to tactfully say something along the lines of, "I love that kit but you know we only have 15 minutes to set up. Can you get that set up and ready to go in 15 minutes?" or "What do you do on a small stage?" Totally non-judgmental and puts the problem in his court, where it belongs.
 
#35
my drummer added a little splash cymbal to his kit (standard 5 piece w/ 2 crash & 1 ride + high hat) he practiced with it once and I never saw it again, guess even the tiniest addition for some is too much. if he can lug everything around and there is actually physically enough space for his drums, then why not, he doesn't tell you how to play bass, or more specifically what gear to use right?
 
#36
lfmn16 said:
Glad that worked for you, but don't act like we're a$$-holes if it doesn't work for some of us. There is a lot of middle ground between the two rigs you mentioned.
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Definitely. Absent the P.A. and IEM in my situation, I wouldn't have been able to be nearly as accomodating to my band's request. For other bassists in other band situations, a much bigger rig is required and I've got no problems with that at all.
 
#38
IMO any drummer who insists on rolling with that much kit had better be bringing his own mics, mic stands and XLR cables to the party as well. Especially if he's one of these guys that thinks he needs to mic every tom and run stereo overheads even in 100 capacity venues. To mic and wire a double-kick, 5-tom kit could easily run over 2 grand and no band I've ever been in would front that kind of overhead (no pun intended). Or help him transport that many pieces.

With my drummer's 4-piece kit we've done small rooms with as little as a kick mic and two overheads and it sounded fine.
 
#39
guy n. cognito said:
Around here, a giant kit is usually a sign that the drummer doesn't gig much. Same thing with giant amp stacks or guitarists show up with a dozen guitars.
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This.

If you really need all of it then it's a little different. I was huge into bringing everything I could possibly need to every gig.

I brought my 8x10 or 4x12, Giant Rediculously heavy 1400 watt rack mount, 3 basses (of which I only really needed to use one), and stands/extras/crap.

Now that I gig alot almost all the fat has been trimmed off my rig. I only use the 4x12 when it's really neccessary. My rack has been shaved down at least 30lb and I never bring more then 1 bass and maybe a backup if i feel the need.

Sorry I rambled on :D

In conclusion I'd say let him bring what he wants. Don't help unless you guys are all cool with that. I only help with my guitarist and drummers stuff because they help with my big bass cab when I need it. Once my fEARful is done and I can lift it over my shoulder no prob, then they are gonna have to get rid of the full stack or suffer.
 
#40
I think so much of it depends on the drummer, the music & band, and the venues.

Like a bassist may have a few rig options (like 1 or 2 cabs etc.) A drummer should consider space, set-up and tear-down time when selecting the kit for a gig.

If the band is headlining big venues with techs and roadies, anything goes essentially. For most musicians it's more a question of practicality than anything. And visibility. Without a riser and a set of cheesy lights and smoke machines... you can't even see the drummer behind a massive kit :ninja:
The drummer may just have a few backs to stare at most of the time, but they are part of the show and should be doing more than 10 minute roto tom solos :hiding: behind a 3,603,014.5 piece kit.
 

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