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Drum kit too big?

#81
My drummer plays in one of the most popular underground death metal bands. His full kit is a 6 or 7 piece kit with 4 cymbals, hats and double kick pedal. Every show is a headlining slot and you'll be lucky to catch him playing anything more than a 5 piece. I've also watched him rehearse on a 4 piece kit without issue or loss of overall percussion quality.
 
#82
posijon said:
Here's a bit of background:
I play in a hardcore band here in Chattanooga. It's extremely simple music (think Leeway, Madball, Cro Mags type stuff). We've spent the past few months trying to iron out a lineup, and will finally be having our first practice with the new drummer on Sunday.

Here's the problem:
His drum kit is huge. It's one of those Peart-esque kits with 5 rack toms, two kick drums, a rack, and a bajillion cymbals. The guy can play, but I feel as if the kit may be a bit overkill, considering the fact that most of where we play is small stages and houses. Do I suggest downsizing the kit or just let it pass and not worry about it?
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Well, you can always talk about it. No need to get aggressive and no need to ignore it either. You can just say, "Hey we are playing at small venues, are you going to be bringing your entire kit?"

The drummer can choose what he wants to bring.
Prog rock drummers do make use of the huge number of toms and cymbals and dare I say, extra snare and secondary remote hi-hat.
Fusion/jazz drummers do make use of a 6-piece kit instead of a 4-piece kit. All you bass guitarist hating on anything more than a bass/snare/tom/floor tom/hi-hat/ride/crash are just thinking about yourselves and the gear logistics. What would you think if a singer, who doesn't have to bring any gear, say if they asked you to leave your pedal board and amp back at home, and just plug directly in to the PA because your rig and signal processors are unnecessarily heavy to carry... it's all low frequency and most everyone is drunk... anyway.
 
#83
The OP states that the drummer is a good player, so I am assuming that means he isn't just hitting everything for the sake of hitting everything. Frankly, I think the OP may be borrowing trouble, as they haven't even practiced with this new guy yet. There is a darn good chance that he will figure out that the gig requires less anyway. I know lots of drummers who have huge kits, but only bring some of it depending on the requirements of the music.

It sounds like the #1 issue is the issue of space. If this is the case, bring up the matter in a calm, professional way should do the trick. After all, if there isn't room, there isn't room. Instead of having a discussion that goes along the lines of "you need to cut back on your gear. You don't need all that crap," it should probably be more along the lines of, "For now we are going to be playing on some tiny stages, and we need to make sure everyone can fit comfortably in cramped quarters."
 
#85
The way I see it......In our original band....

I don't meddle with the other musicians' sounds/rigs/etc. and they don't mess with mine.

If the guy is good and you like what/how he plays.....what's the problem?


And......like redheadedstranger said......he may figure out exactly how HE wants to downsize after he 'climatizes' himself to the band, the songs and venues you guys play.
 
#86
Sixpack324 said:
The way I see it......In our original band....

I don't meddle with the other musicians' sounds/rigs/etc. and they don't mess with mine.

If the guy is good and you like what/how he plays.....what's the problem?
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-They take up considerable amount of stage space.
-They can take over an hour to set up and break down
-They can be a logistical nightmare to move, and many drummers don't possess a car necessary to move on their own.

Note that none of those issues have anything to do with the playing ability of the drummer.
 
#87
Many years ago I showed up for a restaurant piano trio gig with the best drummer I have ever worked with. He set up a snare, hi-hat, ride cymbal and throne. I asked him where the kick was, and his answer was that since I played on 1 and 3 he didn't need to. That may very well have been the tightest gig I've ever been a part of. I don't recommend it for every drummer, but it sure opened my eyes!!!

Blooz :bassist:
 
#88
Floyd Eye said:
Does the drummer tell you what kind of bass/rig to use?
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true - but I'm usually the first one set up. ime I've had to wait for big kitted drummers to get in and set up, it effects the gig as a lot of tactical stuff is usually discussed/gone over/sound checked right before showtime. plus it does make load in/out more stressful. even though it's not my stuff.

listen, not saying a big kit is wrong. just overkill sometimes. if that's your thing then groovy. but I rarely see it that way.

the last band I was in the drummer was constantly tweaking his set up to maximize things. He was all pro, amazing!! there were times you'd swear there were a few people playing drums/perc w/ minimal stuff. set up in ten minutes. just seems like a better way (fwiw I, too, am constantly trying to streamline my rig. make loading in/out and set up easier. etc)
 
#90
The drummer in my last band had a snare, bass drum (double pedals), two mounted toms, a floor tom, hi hat, 2 crashes, a ride,a splash, a bell, a cowbell, and a china. I loved it but it was a beach to mic at shows. He often left the bell, cowbell, and china behind. For some reason I can't comprehend, not a single local venue had enough mics for his toms.
 
#91
posijon said:
Here's the problem:
His drum kit is huge. It's one of those Peart-esque kits with 5 rack toms, two kick drums, a rack, and a bajillion cymbals. The guy can play, but I feel as if the kit may be a bit overkill, considering the fact that most of where we play is small stages and houses. Do I suggest downsizing the kit or just let it pass and not worry about it?
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Don't hire guys with huge drum kits.
 
#92
Depend of the style of music being played.

Also a lot of people preach the "less is more" ... you know that you can get too far in that ... and I have to say ... if less is more then why not not play at all ???
 
#93
pasta4lnch said:
true - but I'm usually the first one set up. ime I've had to wait for big kitted drummers to get in and set up, it effects the gig as a lot of tactical stuff is usually discussed/gone over/sound checked right before showtime. plus it does make load in/out more stressful. even though it's not my stuff.

listen, not saying a big kit is wrong. just overkill sometimes. if that's your thing then groovy. but I rarely see it that way.

the last band I was in the drummer was constantly tweaking his set up to maximize things. He was all pro, amazing!! there were times you'd swear there were a few people playing drums/perc w/ minimal stuff. set up in ten minutes. just seems like a better way (fwiw I, too, am constantly trying to streamline my rig. make loading in/out and set up easier. etc)
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First of all, we play on some very small stages. When we can we put the drums on our riser, which is 8'x8'x2'. We've never had a "Problem" with how much room the drums take up. Whatever the guy is most comfortable playing on, that's what I want him to use. The comment about the bass strings taking up room on the stage is only relevant if the band is having some issue with not having enough room on the stage, which is NOT the case for me and my band.

Bikefest2012small.jpg



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#95
Floyd Eye said:
First of all, we play on some very small stages. When we can we put the drums on our riser, which is 8'x8'x2'. We've never had a "Problem" with how much room the drums take up. Whatever the guy is most comfortable playing on, that's what I want him to use. The comment about the bass strings taking up room on the stage is only relevant if the band is having some issue with not having enough room on the stage, which is NOT the case for me and my band.

Bikefest2012small.jpg



416825_2315153336859_1790222692_1479024_1343125580_n.jpg
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Your also in a 3 piece band. It might be a different story if you had more members. The classic rock band I play with has a keyboard player. The drumtard shows up with a rack system with 2 snares and 7 cymbals.:( Takes him forever to set up and down. Not to mention that he has to run outside and light his face on fire {smoke a cig} before he starts to tear down.
 
#96
modulusman said:
Your also in a 3 piece band. It might be a different story if you had more members. The classic rock band I play with has a keyboard player. The drumtard shows up with a rack system with 2 snares and 7 cymbals.:( Takes him forever to set up and down. Not to mention that he has to run outside and light his face on fire {smoke a cig} before he starts to tear down.
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Well, obviously it is problematic in your situation and needs to be addressed. Really it seems like an extension of the other thread about using full stacks on stage. That is to say I think every situation is different and what works for one band may not work for another band.

Being a cover band ( and one that tries to be as close to the originals as possible) it is important to me that we are able to have enough flexibility in our set-up to cover as much ground as possible. My drummer has 2 snares because, well, Bud Gaugh's snare sounds nothing like Sean Kinney's. If I had the money ( and eventually I will) I would be adding to his kit. I'd like to have some electronic stuff in there. Maybe one of those things David Robinson used early in The Cars career ( The effect used before the chorus in Let The Good Times Roll). I have a moderate sized pedal board as does my guitarist for the same reason.

My drummer and I are always the first ones there and he sets his own stuff up, even all his mics. While he is setting up his stuff I am setting up the PA. We have it down to a science and generally we can load in and be ready to play in about 40 minutes. It takes about 1/2 hour to load out. Seems reasonable enough to me.

Incidentally, I think we found a great vocalist who would be a perfect fit for us. Now we just gotta get him down to the loft to work out with us and see if it gels. So we may not be a 3 piece for long.
 
#97
guy n. cognito said:
-They take up considerable amount of stage space.
-They can take over an hour to set up and break down
-They can be a logistical nightmare to move, and many drummers don't possess a car necessary to move on their own.

Note that none of those issues have anything to do with the playing ability of the drummer.
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If the stage is too small for the drum kit.....common sense has to be applied. That's a no-brainer.

I've played with many drummers with large kits and NEVER, EVER saw one take an hour to set it up. 20 minutes, yes.....not an hour. If the drummer takes an hour to set up his kit......That becomes a different issue. I didn't read in the OP that this was an issue. I thought the OP was speculating on issues with the big drum kit. I didn't think they even gigged with this drummer yet. If it does, somehow, take an hour to set up, that needs to be addressed.....But like I said....an hour to set up a drum kit on a stage is absurd. Most drummers I have played with that play big kits set them up off stage long before they are scheduled to perform, then move the kit, in 5-6 pre-assembled pieces (toms on thr rack, cymbals attached to stands, hi-hat assembled, etc.), to the stage in 15-20 minutes or so.

The drummer and his ability, or lack thereof, to move his gear is another issue entirely. I don't remember reading that in the OP. If the drummer doesn't have his own transportation, the OP should think about replacing the drummer. His lack of transportation will be an issue all in and of itself, regardless of the size of the drum kit. A band member can only bum rides for so long before it becomes cumbersome for the rest of the band....................If it hasn't become cumbersome already, it will.....Just give it time.
 
#98
We have a 16' enclosed trailer that I customized for our gear. The shells are all cased, but all the stands fit in the trailer with only the feet of them being closed. The drum kit is set up and ready to be mic'ed in about 10-15 minutes.
 

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