Drummer Etiquette

[TyBo]

I ask this as a serious inquiry but, I know the cheap shots are gonna fly so, let’s hear’m all.
Anyone have any ideas, stories or anecdotes I can use to get the message across to my drummer to, “lighten up, man”?
He’s been banging on the bongos like a chimpanzee for over forty years and has quite a bit of experience doing local bar/club/party gigs plus a bit of touring experience with an originals project in his younger years. He’s a great (not overly busy, keeps good time, knows his parts) drummer for what he knows but damn, NO DYNAMICS whatsoever. I’d like to get some jazzed up soft shoe stuff mixed into the set list by spring but I don’t know how to tactfully let him know to lighten up on his touch. I might just let it go and let be what will be but for the sake of discussion I’d like to hear how others approach this.
Note: firing him is not an option. This is a joint project between him and me and we are long time friends before music.

Thank you for taking a minute to listen.

Merry Christmas!

Ask him if he can try using brushes on some tune you'd like to do with a jazzier feel. That will automatically bring down the volume and lighten things up a bit. Good luck.

 

[BOOG]

I had asked my drummed not to play fills over the lyrics which I sing.

I have asked him not to speed up since I can't get lyrics out.

(See a theme here...?)

I'd ask your drummer "I'm trying somehting Im working on, can you lighten up your touch on this part...I wanna see how it sounds...". Open the door to the idea that way.

Suggestive reasoning. I like it.

 

[BOOG]

Ask him if he can try using brushes on some tune you'd like to do with a jazzier feel. That will automatically bring down the volume and lighten things up a bit. Good luck.

I brought up brushes early on and his response was a dignified refusal to incorporate brushes.
“No, I don’t use brushes”, sounded pretty clear to me.

 

[Maki_Randy]

You could try a different approach and make it a joint problem (maybe lie a bit). Sit him down and tell him you are getting a bit tired of always the same style and you want something different, something more Jazzy. But you are not sure wether the band is up for it because you are all so used to not really incorporating dynamics is your playing. So you really want to try but check each other on the dynamics...
I know it's not really true but in this case you don't really single one person out and you don't step on some individual toes...

 

[BOOG]

If you can get a multi-track where the drums are isolated, then do a flat-level mix and a gain-rode mix (lower, raise as you like dynamically), might work.

Probably not.

Tried to bribe him with beer? "Every song you get dynamically correct = 1 beer." Or if he's really bad, 1 6-pack.

He doesn’t drink but a lightbulb just went up!
If I get him high I bet he’d lighten up

 

[BOOG]

You could try a different approach and make it a joint problem (maybe lie a bit). Sit him down and tell him you are getting a bit tired of always the same style and you want something different, something more Jazzy. But you are not sure wether the band is up for it because you are all so used to not really incorporating dynamics is your playing. So you really want to try but check each other on the dynamics...
I know it's not really true but in this case you don't really single one person out and you don't step on some individual toes...

Thank you for this sound approach. This is more my style in leading/guiding. I don’t like pointing fingers or singling out. IME getting “buy-in” is a lot more motivating.

 

[BOOG]

He might just have lost a bit of his hearing after all these years, a pro will understand if you tell him what you need.

I never even considered this.
You’re right! His hearing is damaged.
Hmmmm
This adds a whole other perspective and set of problems.
I wear hearing protection during all rehearsals and gigging. It never really occurred to me.

 

[BOOG]

I once played in a band full of Irishmen— one from average white fame back in the early eighties . This fella would turn around to the pile driving drummer and yell “through building your shed? Weeelll stfu then.”

After hearing this phrase after several days I asked what do you mean by build a shed? He said “we hired the c@nt from a construction site after our regular drummer kept getting pissed before each gig. The wank post built bus stop sheds.” True.

Oh boy, this has me giggling out loud and the dog looking at me for waking her up.

 

[BOOG]

It’s strange how he can play for so long and not have any dynamics. I imagine a guy with a drum machine for a head in these types of situations, and they usually suck the soul out of the music. ANYBODY who is a musician without dynamics is near not a musician, just someone who can play an instrument.

Yep, that’s about what I’m getting at.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Maybe gift him some cds/dvds of music featuring drummers with dynamics, saying this is what you'd really love to try playing?

Book yourselves into some coffee-house type gigs where the 'big' sound clearly won't do?

That doesnt work. I made a beat on my phone to kinda work out a new jam, and recorded it. The beat had two tom hits in it. Nice, funky, but driving beat. Two tom hits. As we try the song at practice, he relentlessly beats every piece on his set, completely drops the feel, and swears to his core that that was exactly the beat I had in the recording I sent him. That he had been practicing it for two days and had it down. I then moved the subject to old material.

Hard sticks, hard heads.

 

[glocke1]

I ask this as a serious inquiry but, I know the cheap shots are gonna fly so, let’s hear’m all.
Anyone have any ideas, stories or anecdotes I can use to get the message across to my drummer to, “lighten up, man”?
He’s been banging on the bongos like a chimpanzee for over forty years and has quite a bit of experience doing local bar/club/party gigs plus a bit of touring experience with an originals project in his younger years. He’s a great (not overly busy, keeps good time, knows his parts) drummer for what he knows but damn, NO DYNAMICS whatsoever. I’d like to get some jazzed up soft shoe stuff mixed into the set list by spring but I don’t know how to tactfully let him know to lighten up on his touch. I might just let it go and let be what will be but for the sake of discussion I’d like to hear how others approach this.
Note: firing him is not an option. This is a joint project between him and me and we are long time friends before music.

Thank you for taking a minute to listen.

Merry Christmas!

Same boat...no advice.

My problem drummer is a younger kid who works construction and has endless energy. He hits way too hard and does too many fills that aren't needed, it's really distracting.

What I'd really like to do is suggest he study with a jazz drummer so he can get a better grasp on dynamics, or at least watch youtube videos where people explain that stuff but I doubt those suggestions would go over well.

 

[JRA]

I don’t know how to tactfully let him know to lighten up on his touch.

if you communicate directly, honestly, you'll be better off with him + achieving your goals. do not avoid telling him that you need him to play differently on an arrangement(s). sounds like you respect him and depend on him --- what a great entree!

I’d like to get some jazzed up soft shoe stuff mixed into the set list

i'd like to hear an example of what you're going for myself (for fun), but i'd play some examples for him. and: even if you don't intend to use brushes on your arrangements, play some brushes examples which fit the grooves you're after. brushes are a different vibe.

good luck!

 

[lfmn16]

My old teacher had a saying for situations like this - Never try to teach a pig to sing. You can't do it and it makes the pig mad.

 

[IamGroot]

Invite a skilled drummer over to show him the light.

 

[murph7489]

My drum/percussion instructor beat dynamics (and other things like rudiments and reading)

Yep that is the only way you are going to become a great drummer...if you don't know those things as a drummer, you don't know jack....

"every drummer should be able to play at any dynamic range. It's a required tool in every drummers tool box"

Just insert the word musician in that one in place of drummer



to the original poster...Just tell him, we (the band) are going to be playing softer on these jazzy tunes so you need to do the same that way we all together as a band on those pieces..

 

[DirtDog]

Depends on what he feels like. He has three different kits setup in his space and a few more broken down. He rotates kits like we do with bass’s.

Is there one kit that he’s less “bashy” on? Like a Gretsch club kit? Or are they all different flavours of rock kits?

 

[DirtDog]

One thing that’s common when trying to get someone to change is for them to think it’s their idea. Is there a way you could let the drummer choose tunes that need more refined dynamics...and then let him come to the realization on his own (with some “guided” commentary)?

Yes, I’m suggesting that you manipulate him psychologically!

 

[SoCalBassman]

Brilliant idea and I agree.
First problem, he doesn’t drink.
I kind of approached this tack in the middle of a rehearsal a few months ago but I want to revisit it.

You definitely want to keep it in a constructive, collaborative context to keep it positive.
Right off the top I saw audio examples given.
I was thinking videos so he can get a visual example of lightening up and using dynamics to accentuate the music

 

[Whil57]

Maybe he is one of those people who really likes noise. I discovered a few of them in the past two years, people who somehow equate volume as a necessity.

 

[edencab]

a set of light weight brushes?