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Drummer Etiquette

#81
Whil57 said:
Maybe he is one of those people who really likes noise. I discovered a few of them in the past two years, people who somehow equate volume as a necessity.
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I am convinced that most drummers I've seen that come from the rock world and have little or no experience playing jazz are just simply all about the noise and fills. Some of these guys have some decent chops and sense of time/rythym, but they do nothing but hit hard 100% of the time whether its a ballad or full out rocker.

Whats really funny is that while some of these guys are into drummers that aren't hard hitting all the time and don't do fills all the time..It's like they aren't even paying attention to what their heroes are really doing.

I love playing, but man...the older I get the less interested I am in playing with drummers that feel like they need to be playing at 100% on every single song. I'd almost rather do a gig or jam session with no drummer than have a guy on the kit that has no finesse.
 
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#82
Drummer in my last band thought he was Keith Moon playing in a blues and Americana band. All he ever wanted to do were drum fills and a measure or 2 of the beat. The final straw for me was when he couldn't remember the drum beat to Cripple Creek (we had been playing it for years) because he was so coked up. I quit the band 2 weeks later.
 
#85
bassplayer9512 said:
Drummer in my last band thought he was Keith Moon playing in a blues and Americana band. All he ever wanted to do were drum fills and a measure or 2 of the beat. The final straw for me was when he couldn't remember the drum beat to Cripple Creek (we had been playing it for years) because he was so coked up. I quit the band 2 weeks later.
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His issue wasn't his technique...
 
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#87
Liam Wald said:
So true. If someone has been doing something one way for forty years it is pretty hard, if not impossible, to get them to do it differently.
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The thing is they have to be open to learning and changing their technique.

I have FB page thats public that is my "bassist" page created as part of a request of my current BL to have a page free of politics and firearms stuff. A "feel good" page he put it.

I describe myself there as a "Student of the Low End" because despite having been playing for a total of 25 years off and on, I am still learning and will always be learning.

My problem drummer (and frankly most of the rock guys I play with) are just simply not open to learning. They think because they get tons of gigs that they are already capable players or don't need to do any refinement on their technique. They haven't stopped to think that they are getting tons of gigs in local dive bars and nothing beyond that and there is a reason for them being stagnant on that scene.
 
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#88
BOOG said:
I brought up brushes early on and his response was a dignified refusal to incorporate brushes.
“No, I don’t use brushes”, sounded pretty clear to me.
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A friend of mine once commented "There are very few drummers who are actually musicians, but there are a lots of individuals that own a drum kit and have some sort of primal desire to beat on them incessantly."
 
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#90
Well I know it seems strange, but why not talk to him directly?

Is he allowed to tell you how to play?

If you're not the band leader, and he doesn't tell you how to play, keep it to yourself.

Last suggestion, get the rest of band to play more dynamically, he should feel the change.

Good luck,
Dirk
 
#91
If you can read, why don’t you write a basic chart with dynamics’s on a couple of songs that you guys do. Take them to rehearsal and go over them Measure by measure with him defining what the different components mean. You don’t have to be in his face, just a quick statement and a “lay back here” or “build up here”.
Dynamics can be really hard to play for someone that has played for so long without them. So you will probably need to play close to him and cue him for a while.
 
#94
BOOG said:
I ask this as a serious inquiry but, I know the cheap shots are gonna fly so, let’s hear’m all.
Anyone have any ideas, stories or anecdotes I can use to get the message across to my drummer to, “lighten up, man”?
He’s been banging on the bongos like a chimpanzee for over forty years and has quite a bit of experience doing local bar/club/party gigs plus a bit of touring experience with an originals project in his younger years. He’s a great (not overly busy, keeps good time, knows his parts) drummer for what he knows but damn, NO DYNAMICS whatsoever. I’d like to get some jazzed up soft shoe stuff mixed into the set list by spring but I don’t know how to tactfully let him know to lighten up on his touch. I might just let it go and let be what will be but for the sake of discussion I’d like to hear how others approach this.
Note: firing him is not an option. This is a joint project between him and me and we are long time friends before music.

Thank you for taking a minute to listen.

Merry Christmas!
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"I'd like to work on some new things in my own playing, and I'd like you to help me by practicing with me."

That's how I'd start.
 
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#95
BOOG said:
I ask this as a serious inquiry but, I know the cheap shots are gonna fly so, let’s hear’m all.
Anyone have any ideas, stories or anecdotes I can use to get the message across to my drummer to, “lighten up, man”?
He’s been banging on the bongos like a chimpanzee for over forty years and has quite a bit of experience doing local bar/club/party gigs plus a bit of touring experience with an originals project in his younger years. He’s a great (not overly busy, keeps good time, knows his parts) drummer for what he knows but damn, NO DYNAMICS whatsoever. I’d like to get some jazzed up soft shoe stuff mixed into the set list by spring but I don’t know how to tactfully let him know to lighten up on his touch. I might just let it go and let be what will be but for the sake of discussion I’d like to hear how others approach this.
Note: firing him is not an option. This is a joint project between him and me and we are long time friends before music.

Thank you for taking a minute to listen.

Merry Christmas!
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Have a listening party.
Get recordings of the groups that have the sound and the drumming style you want to hear. Find your favourite "jazzed up soft shoe stuff" recordings and play them while you all carefully listen to the music, and then discuss the music and personnel between songs. Have him hear the end goal of what you are striving for. If he hears the music and is motivated sound like the drummer on those recordings, you have a chance and a direction. If he hears those songs and goes "bah humbug", he's not the one for you to play those songs with. Make a side project with other people for those sounds.
 
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#97
These threads always make me wonder if any band isn't always better off getting a jazz/swing type drummer initially ALWAYS, then saying, hey we changed our minds and we'd like to add 12 rock songs to our 15 song setlist, and can you play just a bit harder on those? :roflmao::smug:

But honestly, if you have been friends that long, why can't you just be honest and say, listen, this the the direction we want to go, can you do this or not? Because if not, we seriously need to start looking for a different drummer. Give him the chance to say, yea, let me try to do this, or no, it's just not me, and I understand. At least then HE is the one saying no, I can't fill the role the band needs at this time.
 
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#98
13bass said:
These threads always make me wonder if any band isn't always better off getting a jazz/swing type drummer initially ALWAYS, then saying, hey we changed our minds and we'd like to add 12 rock songs to our 15 song setlist, and can you play just a bit harder on those? :roflmao::smug:

But honestly, if you have been friends that long, why can't you just be honest and say, listen, this the the direction we want to go, can you do this or not? Because if not, we seriously need to start looking for a different drummer. Give him the chance to say, yea, let me try to do this, or no, it's just not me, and I understand. At least then HE is the one saying no, I can't fill the role the band needs at this time.
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I’d rather just keep going with what is available from him and secondly, work on a different project than just scrap it.
 
#100
glocke1 said:
I am convinced that most drummers I've seen that come from the rock world and have little or no experience playing jazz are just simply all about the noise and fills.
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It's not always a rock vs. jazz thing, though. The drummer in my college band, strictly a rocker as far as I know, has the best dynamics I've ever encountered. I got to play with him again at a reunion this summer and I came into it wondering if I was exaggerating this aspect of his playing in memory. Nope. He's still got it. Because he can play lightly, he can actually build energy and tension over a song, and his fills just explode. Conversely, I've known a few drummers with jazz training and ostensibly a lot of jazz listening interests whose dynamic range is from mf+ to ff.
 
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