Drummer Etiquette

[Tim Skaggs]

I ask this as a serious inquiry but, I know the cheap shots are gonna fly so, let’s hear’m all.
Anyone have any ideas, stories or anecdotes I can use to get the message across to my drummer to, “lighten up, man”?
He’s been banging on the bongos like a chimpanzee for over forty years and has quite a bit of experience doing local bar/club/party gigs plus a bit of touring experience with an originals project in his younger years. He’s a great (not overly busy, keeps good time, knows his parts) drummer for what he knows but damn, NO DYNAMICS whatsoever. I’d like to get some jazzed up soft shoe stuff mixed into the set list by spring but I don’t know how to tactfully let him know to lighten up on his touch. I might just let it go and let be what will be but for the sake of discussion I’d like to hear how others approach this.
Note: firing him is not an option. This is a joint project between him and me and we are long time friends before music.

Thank you for taking a minute to listen.

Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas. If he’s been playing that way for over 40 years, the chances you have of getting him to change are less than slim. Good luck.

 

[vvvmmm]

Record him and show it to him, explain how dynamics would make stuff better. Use evidence so that you minimize (doesn't eliminate because you never know how people are going to react) the change of it being taken as personal attack.

If you can get a multi-track where the drums are isolated, then do a flat-level mix and a gain-rode mix (lower, raise as you like dynamically), might work.

Probably not.

Tried to bribe him with beer? "Every song you get dynamically correct = 1 beer." Or if he's really bad, 1 6-pack.

 

[jerry]

He might just have lost a bit of his hearing after all these years, a pro will understand if you tell him what you need.

 

[Steadfast]

I once played in a band full of Irishmen— one from average white fame back in the early eighties . This fella would turn around to the pile driving drummer and yell “through building your shed? Weeelll stfu then.”

After hearing this phrase after several days I asked what do you mean by build a shed? He said “we hired the c@nt from a construction site after our regular drummer kept getting pissed before each gig. The wank post built bus stop sheds.” True.

 

[AboutSweetSue]

It’s strange how he can play for so long and not have any dynamics. I imagine a guy with a drum machine for a head in these types of situations, and they usually suck the soul out of the music. ANYBODY who is a musician without dynamics is near not a musician, just someone who can play an instrument.

 

[Frampton]

I ask this as a serious inquiry but, I know the cheap shots are gonna fly so, let’s hear’m all.
Anyone have any ideas, stories or anecdotes I can use to get the message across to my drummer to, “lighten up, man”?
He’s been banging on the bongos like a chimpanzee for over forty years and has quite a bit of experience doing local bar/club/party gigs plus a bit of touring experience with an originals project in his younger years. He’s a great (not overly busy, keeps good time, knows his parts) drummer for what he knows but damn, NO DYNAMICS whatsoever. I’d like to get some jazzed up soft shoe stuff mixed into the set list by spring but I don’t know how to tactfully let him know to lighten up on his touch. I might just let it go and let be what will be but for the sake of discussion I’d like to hear how others approach this.
Note: firing him is not an option. This is a joint project between him and me and we are long time friends before music.

Thank you for taking a minute to listen.

Merry Christmas!

I think that after 40 years, it's probably a lost cause. Save the friendship and tread lightly on this subject.

 

[shwashwa]

he's not going to change at this point. this is how he plays. believe me, ive been there. i've had much more success just finding a guy who like to play the way i like to hear it.

 

[mark107]

Jazz great Chet Baker famously said, "It takes a really good drummer for it to be better than no drummer at all". Truer words were never spoken.

The truth is, most drummers are not terribly good, and nothing wreaks the music more totally than one of these clowns.

 

[BOOG]

What kind of kit does he play?

Depends on what he feels like. He has three different kits setup in his space and a few more broken down. He rotates kits like we do with bass’s.

 

[BOOG]

This, and give him, like, Mazzy Star or Cowboy Junkies songs on the CD.

Great choices! Thanks for the suggestions

 

[biguglyman]

Tell him to lighten up. If he can't or won't, put him behind the plexiglass "wall of shame".

 

[BOOG]

I don’t understand: this is your life-long friend and you can’t simply tell him “ hey man , I need you to play lightly on the jazz tunes”?

I’ll tell you what, please show him this thread.

Long time (ten years) friend. Not, lifelong.

 

[BOOG]

Yeah just tell him.

I would also exaggerate your and the bands dynamics. Play softly so that he has to quiet down to hear the band. Also you might ask him to use brushes or those bundle stick things.

This is why I like electronic drums. You can turn the drummer down yet he can have his headphones blasting away.

Great tip! Exaggerating my lightness would probably register after a while.

 

[BOOG]

The title of this thread is an oxymoron.

 

[BOOG]

I do the same thing with drummers. Communicate with body language and volume in my playing. Play quietly and squat lower a bit. Then play louder 16ths more notes while raising up. Hopefully you can be direct and describe what you’re looking for with examples. Start the conversation with “you know what would be cool? If we could play it like they do on (insert album). See how they start soft etc...”

As long as you come off genuinely wanting to approach a piece in a dynamic way and you explain what you want in advance and then follow up repeatedly you can most likely get there.

Tried the body language without results.

 

[BOOG]

Tell him at rehearsal you want to try seeing if the two of you can follow each other and try some stuff. If he agrees, try getting VERY soft in parts. Exaggerate what you are trying to get him to do. Tell him to try things as well so you can follow.

One drummer I play with loves doing this. Basically we take turns playing follow the leader, and try to lead the band into different directions.

I like this. Great reminder! When we first started jamming together it was just the two of us but the dynamics didn’t come up because we were still in the early stages of jamming together and I was not as developed as I am now to recognize it as readily. I think this will be the next conversation by suggesting just he and I get together for a jam and see how we do with call/response.

 

[BOOG]

Are you SURE about that? That's a horrible affliction for a musician. NO dynamics WHATSOEVER. Are you SURE you aren't EXAGGERATING just a little bit?

Really!?
Yes doc, I’m exaggerating.
Do you feel better now?
My apologies for articulating a point with dynamic prose.
Merry Christmas.

 

[BOOG]

Also playing quieter, e.g. with brushes or rods or e-drums turned down, is not the same thing as playing with dynamics. Music has to breathe.

Valid point.

 

[BOOG]

I’d just accept the fact that he plays like Bam-Bam and put together your soft set with a different drummer as a different project so you can still rock out with your friend on the loud stuff.

Probably the most likely outcome.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Really!?
Yes doc, I’m exaggerating.
Do you feel better now?
My apologies for articulating a point with dynamic prose.
Merry Christmas.

Then you have something to improve on by exaggeration of your own dynamics to lead his and positive reinforcement.