**Before we get started with this WARNING, this is a LONG read. If you don’t want to read it all just skip this thread. This is also 16 year old Drama. If band Drama is not your thing move long. I did my best to end the drama with theses guys. **
First of all the Drummer is not very good. I have been working with him and he's improving. To give you an idea we decided to learn the Song WOULD by Alice in Chains so I learned my bass line and we all played it. Drummer was coming in late with the beat and sometimes the beat was opposite on the snare. Week later after I listened to the drums some he and I got together to work it out. It took an hour and twenty minutes to get to the bottom of it but the jist is he had no idea what the count was for one progression of the bass into. He was counting in 4's but I had to show him the bass line plays and loops at 8 count. Once he understood that he adjusted and came in on time with the right beat. I know what you are thinking, he should do this naturally. Drummer's are rare as Hens teeth in my area so I decided to coach and drill him.
The Drummer had a meeting with the singer and from my point of view had a melt down over the pressures of getting ready for a gig in 5 months. He took the gig and wants to be in a cover band and that means almost from scratch we need to learn 40 songs. We have a great guitar player we played with once and I formed a facbook page for the band to discuss plans. It seems to me the drummer felt threatened by this viewing it as losing control over the band as if I was acting as a band leader. I think he has issues.
The Drummer came up with a list of songs he thinks he can play. I was not going to tell him he could not but I was working to gently push him to re consider some of his elections. Here is the list...
We're an american band....grand funk railroad
Nothing else matters. ...Metallica
Enter Sandman....Metallica
House of the rising sun....the animals
Rooster - Alice in Chains
Kashmir. ...led Zepplin
Mississippi queen....mountain
Alice in Chains - Rooster.
my own prison...creed
Pour some sugar on me....def lepard
Smoke on the water... deep purple
Tom sawyer....rush
Radar love…….Golden Ering
Separate ways.. journey
War pigs....black sabbath
Dryer maker. Led zeppelin
No more tears... Ozzy
The rover....led zeppelin
DEFAULT LIST Stuff we know or can almost play
Foreigner - Double Vision
Judas Priest - Living After Midnight
Alice in Chains - Man in the Box
Areosmith - Sweet Emotion
Journey - Don’t Stop Believing
Montrose - Rock Candy
Born to Be wild Steffenwolf
Led Zeppelin Whole lotta love
Golden Earring - Twilight Zone
Cracker - Low
Would.....alice in chains
Rock n roll....led zeppelin
DIO - Rainbow in the Dark
When I sent the Guitar player (Ron) the list he posted about it on Facebook. Here was what he said and it's the truth mind you. He was being nice not to single anyone out but I know he is talking about the drummer not himself and I. I also picked a few un realistic songs as a result of the un realistic list as it was clear to me the drummer picked based on what he likes not reality or what the public might like. He nominated me as band leader and that seems to have caused a great part of the drama. Guitar players comment to follow.....
Ok......here's my input: Ok since were picking songs with complicated Drums and guitar I'm throwing some into the mix: I don't believe in love: Queensryche Eyes of a stranger: Queensryche What if I'd been the one: 38 special Caught up in you: 38 special It's not love: Dokken Feels like tonight: Daughtry If you needed somebody: Bad company Bad company: Bad company (or that newer version) Panama: Van Halen Wicked sensation: Lynch mob Careless whisper: Seether Loved too much: Ty Herndon (Rock version)
Personally? I think many of these songs are beyond our current abilities. I can play each of the songs I listed including the lead, but I know as a BAND we may not pull them off and the effort needed to get there (from my experience) would put us out a ways. But this is merely my opinion. My advice would be this; pick easy simple songs for 2 whole sets we can play now. Once all those songs are down and were happy with them let's talk about more complicated music. The way my last band operated was this way: Curtis listed 4 songs a week he wanted me to learn. I would learn what I could and then we would practice on Friday. Usually I had all 4 songs down except some little nuances here and there. We would then decide if we were going to keep all of them or not. Then curtis would list out the next 4 songs. Usually there was always one song each week that would go on the next weeks list. At this rate we had a whole set within about 3 months. My advice? Mike I nominate YOU as band leader. You give us the song list for two weeks of music. That would be 8 songs or whatever. Then we meet, play, and decide what songs are good to go and what songs we butcher too bad. Mike then compiles the next 2 weeks of music. I also think Mike should have the final say on what songs stay and what songs go. If we don't have a leader were going to regret it and Mike is more than capable. We also need to decide if were going to be a dance band or just a music band because I don't know if any of you guys can dance but if you want to ever play a Boise gig I'd suggest a major song list overhaul or forget about bigger venues. And before you criticize my judgment let me say that I've been involved in the music scene in Boise, (Portland), for a long time and I know what I'm talking about. Also I used to train to dance competition with my ex-wife (country). The dance scene in the bigger venues is huge. So far I've seen NO indication people here know how to dance or even want to. Maybe Lewiston is different I don't know. Anyway that is my advice but I'll do whatever you guys decide.
With this the Drummer PM'ed the Guitar player and gave him the "it's my band" speech and told him to back off. The Guitar player then bluntly said he would simply withdraw from the project. The Drummer asked him to re consider. The next morning I got this in my Facebook PM inbox and I confess It left me a little confused. Before I went to bed the night before I offered to be the band's diplomat but not leader and I would base all decisions on voting. I hoped that would settle things but I got this the next morning from the Drummer... I left his typos but censored his cuss words.
Writting up Gabes snd ny respone right now instead of going over the ****ing songs like I should be got the electronic set up so I can practice to the wee hours of the night but I talked to Gabe for over an hour last night and I just got off the phone after another hour call to make sure its what he really wants to do. Just wait and when I am done Writting done what he said and what we both feel ill send it then Iam ****ing tired for these two days of drama please dont respond to this text just let me finish the msg while everything is still in my head then I am going to bed and wont check my phone until friday because I am tired of this ****. On friday Ill check my msgs to see what you decide what your going to do but Ron is out no vote its done Gabe and I will not jam with him night it will take about an hour to fricking type in all what Gabe and I talked about
God ***** second ******* time Istep away to get fresh air and a ******* smoke so I wouldn't sound like Iam going ape **** typi g.for over hour just for my Nook go I to stand by mode and lose the the whole ****ing msg **** me. So give meanother hour and I won't take a break I'll stay up all night typing ( you know how I love to do typing) but I feel its important because yesterday gabe and I wanted to pull the plug on the the band but after talking to him tonight and getting deep into the root of our unhappiness we did came up with a plan B that I think will work with everyone I wont go into the Ron deal because plan A and B doesn't include him so that will save me some typing give me an hour an I'll have it done
Ok for the third time if it doesn't work this time I give up. Mike we love jamming with you and want to contiune to jam as a band but are reading to start over if need be. In your response to me last Gabe couldn't stop laughing at Mikes comment on what we need to do as a band to keep thank you very much for that well need humour. Funny ****. After talking to Gabe over two nights for over two hours we decided after the second call to give it another shot under these permise. One the fun has gone away from jamming together. Its the reason why we leave our loved ones and friends and put aside our free time to spend three to four hours to jam. Its getting to be like a sec job and a sec job that we hate. Hell I all ready havea job I hate to go to and don't want another. Trust me the first two msg went. Into detail but I lost them due to taking a break from typing. Gabe and I want to be fair but we both have great complaints on how things are going. LET ME STATE THIS NOW WE DONT HAVE A COMPLAINT ON YOUR PLAYING OR OFTHE PERSON WHO YOU ARE but were not happy and it sounds like your not happy. I feel like I found four people (that inculded Ron) at that time to have the BEST BAR BAND in Lewiston. We really like you as a person and I could type all ****ing night when I should be working on the songs. I got my electronic set up so I can practice until the wee hours of the night. Instead of typing all night we should have a meeting to see who wants to stay and who wants to walk. No hard feelings for who wants to walk but taking me away from practicing so I can ****ing type stiupid ***t sucks. Gabe is going to beover to jam on Sunday. We both.have a name for the new band.but we can't decide my pick is poetic justice his is ground zero since we can't agree we are going to flip a coin to decide onthe.name. After the meeting BEFORE THE JAM because after the long 3 to 4 hour jam ( one of the.complaints jams too long) everyone just wants to leave and go home so now we will have the meeting First for 30 mins if we don't have a complaint then well talk about band **** in egi,., songs or up coming jams we will jam one hour then a 15 min break jam another hour then 15 min break and then as a band welldecide to quit and go home or to am a song we like.but haven't played yet. My first two msg went over most of it but I tired and want to go to bed. If you decide to stay with us awsome that comes from Gabe and me.if you decide to move.on without having a band meeting we are cool with that. We want to befair but the fun has left the jam
Forgot to add if you show up sunday have ur pick for band name and well do A THREE coin toss to decide on the name
IN a separate post I lamented to the the removed Guitar player,
I wake up and you are out, they are un happy and I am wondering what the big deal is. You made one practice and said one truth about the song list being above the bands collective ability. I fail to see how you could be responsible for the un happiness. I am told I can take a hike if I don’t like it, as if I am responsible. I seem to recall the whole idea was not mine in the first place. They wanted to form a cover band and play with the big boys. All you have done is give advice on how to get there and all I have done is go over and coach and drill spending my time to give someone a shot at what they say they wanted. Confused.......
Drummer accused me of near bashing,
Nobody said uou were out Mike but your close to bashing us on fb in my opinion is not how the "big boys" do it just saying
Thursday 2:08am
This is my REPLY to the whole situation I posted away fro my page so it was not considered bashing.
I don’t believe in hushed conversations in the corner on matter of importance I believe in transparency so here goes. I know you have not kicked me out of the band but guess what? I still have opinions about the situation. YOU WILL listen to them and take them into account. If you want to talk about maturity levels I will point out that the melt down I witnessed without any of my input does not leave you any moral standing to call anyone childish. If you and Gabe were big boys this conversation would not exist. I know a thing or two about how the big boys play in bands, they don't need band leaders because they are adult enough to work things out. Ron offered to hold a meeting and see if we could get together on the same page enough to make it work. There was no harm in that, if we could not come to terms we could part ways with him on good terms no hard feelings. Since I was not in on the meeting between you and Gabe I am left to draw my own conclusions and my own conclusions is you two felt threatened by the fact I was organizing discussion and that Ron would dare point out that the list you came up with was totally un realistic. Why do you get bent that he pointed out a truth? I shared the same opinion but I was not going to tell you I was going to let you figure it out for yourself while you wasted time doing it. So don’t get mad at Ron for seeing the situation for what it is. Don’t get mad at him for being a straight shooter and offending your sensibilities.
Take a look at what just went down. If Ron can point out something like that and you guys have a melt down how on earth are you going to work in a band week after week when things are said that will cause you to lose it? **** happens in bands, people say things. You told me and another person to **** off when you were drunk about a week and a half ago and I deleted it and gave you a pass because you were stressed. If you cannot reciprocate the same it’s not going to work. I DON’T entertain DOUBLE STANDARDS, we need to be clear on that. When someone speaks their mind it’s not about what they say it’s about your attitude and how you handle it.
Certain things are learned and known by Musicians who get to be our age. I honestly have not seen anything like this since my first band when I was 16. Keep in mind this was ALL your idea. You said you wanted to be in a gigging band, be in a band better then the other bands in town. You came up to me almost every week end at Wal Mart asking me if I wanted to Jam. I knew you were not up to par but I figured after sitting on my ass for 9 months working with you would be better then nothing and it would put a bass in my hands at least once a week so I agreed. I don’t know if you noticed this but you have improved a lot since the first time I met you. Why do you think that is? I can promise you it not any of Gabe’s doing it’s mine. You have the ability and the chops but you lack the understanding of timing as it relates to the other instruments and the songs. I have worked with you and you have improved but you had a long way to go. By my estimates about 12 month and learning the songs the right way I think you were on your way to being that great drummer you think you currently are. My old drummer once said “you are only as good as the people you play with”. I am good for your playing and Ron would have also challenged you, coming out the other end 12 months from now you could have looked back with pride at the accomplishment but you PISSED it all away with little thought on the matter. That is what you and Gabe just did even though you have no idea or concept of this. And you pissed it all away because Ron said something that was true.
Ron is a laid back guy, look at where I asked him about dropping the 38 Special Song I hate. What was his response? Something like “OK done”. Wow easy to get along with. You and Gabe feel like the band is no longer fun anymore and too much like a job? Well all you had to do was say so not throw a fit. You let let us know the pressure was getting to you and it’s like this, OK we can back off on this, you know I understand the pressure I have felt it too in the past. We can reduce it but you would have to see reality and cancel that gig you wanted to play for your co worker. Then we could take a slower pace. You have to have realistic expectations however. There is a difference between knowing the song and knowing how the song goes. You can get lazy to some extend but if you want to play the music with others you have to at least get the basic song structure down. I AM SORRY BUT there is just no way to sugar coat that. That is what I was trying to work you into. Like the Intro on WOULD. You got it, you should be proud but you also have to understand there will be more then one WOULD battle to fight to get to where you want to go.
At this meeting that Ron suggested one of the things I was going to tell everyone was that if anyone in the band thinks they don’t need any other member in the band they are dreaming. I’ve been in bands when the members thought they could just replace someone and go about their merry business. And I saw it only worked when the band changed direction. My last band fired the guitar player against my advice and the band was never the same. With Ron gone, out the window is any hope of being the best band in town. Things are also changing in the local music scene. Cover bands are losing their importance here and original bands are getting set to take over. Gone with Ron is any hope of competing in that in any serious way.
Now when I read your message about Ron being gone and you hope I stay but you and Gabe are willing to start over I read between the lines and see a lack of respect. Basically you are telling me you two are making command decisions and I can take a hike if I want to. Well first of all if I do, do you think you will find another bass player? You’d be lucky to fine one who can play at all. You won’t find one as good as I am. The reality is you will probably sit around for a year or two waiting. I’ll be playing on a street corner alone if I have to. All four members brought something valuable to the table in this band, things that cannot be replaced without totally changing the direction.
I am not mad at you and Gabe for what you have done I am disappointed. You have shown your lack of experience and maturity in your actions and I am calling you on it so you might self reflect and think twice in the future before being stupid again.
IN your message to me you said something about plan B and C so I will come Sunday and hear what you guys have to say, then I will have my say but you need to realize that now that you have done what you have done and are going to dictate to me that it IS A TWO WAY STREET and I will be bringing a very short list of rules for myself that you guys can consider and decide if I am going to keep playing with you. This is a can of worms you have opened that you will have to eat. I won’t make any rules for you guys but I will be making rules for myself that will effect you. This is to protect myself from investing any more time in this band so that its not a waste of my time. See you Sunday.
Personally it’s my hope that you read this, take it to heart and apologize to me for your part in this Drama. You’d be wise to apologize to Ron and beg him to re join the band too but I don’t know that he would ever come back in at this point. None of what just went down had to happen. I can work with almost anyone as long as they are adult, rational and willing to be reasonable.
SOME observations and comments from The Guitar player he sent me on this for consideration:
1.I am only responsible for my own happiness or unhappiness. While I was in the band room with Kyle after your departure that night I saw him for who he is. He hid nothing and was quite proud of it. I walked away feeling that Kyle has too many demons to exorcise before he can even begin to enjoy music and that he would not be happy with my presence in the band. I was surprised he even tried to keep me in it to be honest but I knew it would eventually get here. In Kyle’s world he's still battling his Father. Anything that gets even remotely organized he associates with his father and the military life he led. He really talked a lot after you left and told me a great deal which I listened to very carefully. "Out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks". Kyle’s not a bad guy he just shouldn't be playing music professionally.
2. The night we had practice after you left Kyle started running down Gabe. It was like a verbal beat down and Gabe was stunned. He looked at me at one point not knowing what to say and the look on my face didn't make him fell any better I suppose. Gabe took it, to his credit because I would not have. Kyle then began to (over and over) tell me he was a drum prodigy from birth and that his teachers told him he would eventually teach them. This bravado continued until he told me he and Gabe like to get high and just play songs with no attempt to make them sound like the actual song. I told him, "Well how the heck does all the band members know when to come in and go out unless the musical markers the original artists put in are being played? He told me he never saw it as a problem. I had heard enough. I told him no player worth anything would do any such thing and declare a desire to play live. He began making excuses for his viewpoint. I told him, "Here's all you need to know about me. I work hard at everything including music. I need my bandmates to do the same. If you work hard and it's taking you too long to get there then it's not a huge problem because your working hard. As long as your willing to do that I'm in". While you were there and we were playing on one of his trips to the bathroom, in his drunken stupor, he stepped on my floor unit breaking the end of one of my cords. I've never brought it up but I didn't notice it until I tried playing a few days later. That whole evening left a pretty bad taste in my mouth.
My Question for the members is am I being reasonable? My rules with these guys will be
1. Drummer learns the entire songs and demo’s it to me before I learn one note of
it.
2. All song picks have to have my approval. If I hate the song pick another one.
3. They are free to drink and smoke their’s hearts out but when I see they cannot
play any longer my amp gets turned off and I am gone till next time.
4. NO more babysitting the drummer, he can figure out his parts on his own.
5. Band name, if I don’’t like it pick another one. I won’t participate in the band
name hat draw. I won’t play on any stage with you guys unless I like the
name of the band too.
I am more then willing to walk and I know some of you will say I should but I will play with them if they agree to my rules for myself while I look for another project. I will play with them for fun only nothing serious. I can be in two bands no problem.
