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Drummers' timing and how it affects your playing

#81
sedan_dad said:
I've been playing since the 70's and I couldn't agree more.
I've said many times myself that the drummer is the most important member of the band.
Effects can cover up for most anyone else. You can't hide a bad drummer.
Click to expand...


I just joined another band as a drummer, to make a long story short we could never find a decent drummer so I decided to go back to drunmming after taking many years off. We had a little jam session last night and I asked one of the guys how was my drumming, I know I am very rusty. He said man you were grooving and in the pocket, but obviously you need to work on your fills and rolls a little. I said if that's all I need to worry about and the groove was there....that's all I needed to know!
 
#82
I read the first page of the thread, and then jumped to here, so if I'm not in sync with the thread that's why.

I play drums in three bands on a regular basis, sub in others frequently, and also play in a jazz trio with rotating players in the other chairs. I'm a pretty good drummer in fair demand for jazz and rock gigs, and feel confident in my ability to work with just about any bassist.

In one of my regular groups the bassist is very good, but tends to overplay sometimes. On the other hand, he has big ears, and listens to me, so that we can frequently do some interesting things together and drive the band in new directions (if the guitarists are listening, which is another issue entirely). I often wish he'd lay back a little bit, but can work with him happily regardless.

In another group, the bassist is musically young, and not able to lay it down the way a more experienced player would. In that group I tend to drive the rhythm more than I do in others. He's not bad, but I carry him more than I should have to, which makes my job more difficult than it really should be. Nice guy, though, and circumstances dictate that I keep my mouth shut.

The third of my regular groups is looking for a permanent bassist, and my hopes are high. The search is occasionally painful, though.

In my other situations I play with a lot of different players, most of whom are absolutely stellar. I talked about getting in sync with one player who I do a semi-regular jazz gig with, noting that we seem to work well together, and he said, "That'd because we're both willing to compromise on the time."

We listen to each other and look to hook up well in support of whatever music we're playing. We've played in several different groups, mostly jazz, and it's never been less than a total pleasure rhythmically.

If I'm in a situation where the bassist is lacking I just focus on the rhythm guitarist and lock in with him or whoever else in the band is dominant. The bassist can then lock in with us or be irrelevant.

In any band the ideal is to have the bass and drums in total sync. Reality is that one or the other dominates and leads. If you're the one leading you have to make sure that time is stable and the groove is appropriate. If you're following, it's incumbent on you to work to become a more equal partner, if only so that you can have more input on the grooves.
 
#83
The first drummer I ever played with is a good friend of mine and since he left our band I've not found anyone who can replace him. But fortunately, every band I play in, the drummer is on a click so we never have to worry about speeding up or slowing down unless his battery dies. Personally, I feel much more confident when the rhythm is steady
 
#84
ninjavanishh said:
The first drummer I ever played with is a good friend of mine and since he left our band I've not found anyone who can replace him. But fortunately, every band I play in, the drummer is on a click so we never have to worry about speeding up or slowing down unless his battery dies. Personally, I feel much more confident when the rhythm is steady
Click to expand...


Drummer shouldn't need clicks unless you use a lot of samples.
 
#85
I've been fortunate in that the last two main bands I have been a member of had my brother on drums. Being family, and learning our instruments together has basically made us a reasonably tight rhythm section. He is the best drummer I've ever played with in terms of a connection, and he has very good timing, learns songs pretty much immediately, likes to experiment but also knows when to keep it simple. It just makes it a pleasure to play with someone and know you don't have to worry about their timing. Makes it much easier to relax.

I've played with other drummers, though, who weren't quite up to the same level as my brother. Basically I just adjust to how they play. I always try to play to the drummer to increase tightness, and encourage the guitarists to play to the drummer rather than the other way around (except in certain circumstances).

But really it just comes down to the situation at hand.
 
#86
Dear, dear. I'm glad someone asked.

I play with a 15-year-old that's a very, very talented drummer. This guy can make beats and grooves with the best of them, and he can throw it down. Operative word in all of these? CAN

He has a tendency to rush and lose sight of a feel and, to my disbelief, overplay. (I know, right? A teenage boy who isn't secure about himself and feels he's gotta play 64th note fills.)

I've gotten good enough with time that I know he's got the best potential but makes a terrible mess of learning. A lot of times, I talk to him about what I feel the dynamic and feel should be in one passage or another, and he'll say, "Yeah, I get what you mean," and forge on ahead with the same ****.

He's a gratuitous fill player, a slow learner, a very bad listener, and swings as regularly (some days) as a barn door in a hurricane.

And inspite of all this, he's actually an amazing drummer.

----

Cut to the four or five times I've jammed with Nick Rich, grandson of Buddy Rich. This guy is ****ing ON. He can establish any groove and make any band rock its head off. I never realized it, but I become a better bass player when he jams with me because of how solid he is. I get a lot of compliments about how solid and creative I am at bass, even from him, but I am perplexed to date about how a good drummer can make anyone sound good.
 
#88
we picked up a new drummer from CL, had half a dozen rehearsals & everything seemed to be going smooth, he had decent chops, didn't overplay, didn't seem to stretch out the fills, had a consistent meter, & had pretty much the precise tempo to the songs,,,,,,

until he was onstage, at our first gig, ( with him ),,,

i don't know if he was tweakin ,, or what,,,, but he was a totally different player... rushed everything,, overplayed everything,,, the only consistent thing he did all nite was to push the tempo up on every song by 15/20bpm

about 10 song into this fiasco, ( & subsequently, nobody in the band saying anything to this guy) i leans over between songs & say,, let's bring the tempo down a little on this next one K ???

& HE FLIPS OUT,,, starts yelling & sh**,,,, i don't have to take this sh**,,,, i've been doing this since "79,,,, yaddayaddayadda,,,


god i hate tweeakeers,,, & drumming tweekeers at that...:spit:
 
#89
It is an absolute treat to play with a drummer that has impeccable timing and great feel. Yes, to answer your question, it has a tremendous effect on my playing.

I find that I can concentrate on other things (feel of the song, groove, note selection) if the drummer and I are on the same page with timing. There is nothing more irritating than a drummer that is constantly hanging on my shirt.

One of the key things is listening and not being a selfish ass. I can tell right away if a drummer is listening to me or not. And a good drummer can tell if I am listening to him/her as well.

The drummer in my last band was so awesome, we would joke around by giving one another a funny look if even one note or hit was flubbed. All in all we were tight, almost too tight.

I won't play with a drummer who is not a good listener, period.

Good drummers are hard to find these days, at least here in AZ.
 
#91
One time my vocalist and me came to a rehearsal place that we rent on hourly basis some half an hour before time, and there was some band inside. We asked the studio owner what played inside. He said "Well, the drummer needs to get a metronome, set it to 60 BPM, and tie it to his head with cell-o-tape to grasp any feel of the beat. Then after a week he should probably raise the tempo to 70". Well, that band DID suck.

Luckily, our drummer is quite good for a 16-year old, but he still gets out of time here and there, especially on slower songs. I know he workd with metronome a lot at home, but sometimes things go off when playing with a band. Can anyone suggest a remedy for such a problem?
 
#92
My group, "Grace On Fire", teamed up with another praise group a few weeks back to do a church service and one of the songs was in 2/2. This was the first time I played with their drummer and he was not close enough to me to let me shout a little help over to him, because I wanted him to hit the snare on the 2, not the 1. Well, great minds must think alike because I looked over at him and he gave me a smile like he knew what I was thinking and hit the intro of the song with the snare on the deuce!!!! I nailed that song and he had a big sh.. eating grin on his face like he knew that I knew he was reading my mind!!! That was cool. Unfortunately, opportunities to work with that group again are slim, but our directors are trying to work out a praise concert with them and I would love it, because that drummer knows how to work with the bass! That's all you can expect, right? When the drummer knows how to mix with the bassist, and visa-versa, all is good and the gig is going to be great!
Merry Christmas,
Johnny
 

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