Dusty's 10 thread

[Dusty G]

I've always been interested in building an ERB. Some, perhaps many of you will think this is exessive, but I'm going to build a 10 single-string bass, and I think it would be cool to share progress pics w/ you guys along the way.

Here's what I've decided upon so far:

9 piece set neck, Brazilian redwood and walnut

Cocobolo fretboard, headstock facing, and facing of the middle of the body, so it looks continuous.

27 stainless frets, fanned, enough so that they can all be wound strings (still working out) and starting with a low B string at 33"

I'm still deciding on some body woods and electronics, but I want to finish this bass in ONE MONTH, except maybe the electronics, depending. I will post pics soon, as I make progress!

 

[Rogier]

One Month?! Why is there a pressure? In my opinion you should never rush these things or work with a tight schedule in mind, especially such a complicated project as yours.

Anyhow, still very interested in the design you made! So, let's show your...

 

[Dusty G]

Well, I'de like to finish in one month, but that doesn't necessarily mean it will happen! We'll see....

Here's a pic of the neck blank, roughty cut to size, with some "Ears" getting glued on to make the width of the headstock. I jointed up the center-piece of the neck to be triangular, like I've seen on some Bee basses. I'm very confident that those thick steel rods combined with the super-stiff woods will keep that neck nice and straight. From my experience with these woods, I'm not boing to bother with an adjustable truss rod. In short, it wouldn't do the trick!

And, an approximation of the body shape. An idea I had on my vacation to Amsterdam last month, as you can see by the paper it's drawn on. I wonder what made me so creative that day??

 

[Greg Johnsen]

sweet man, I would love to make a 10 string one day, it would definately be an awesome project.

Pretty cool body design too, can't wait to see that get started

Greg

 

[spudmaster34]

the body does look prett good, I would worry that the upper horn is too thin to support the rest of the body, mabeye you could route a channel in the horn and put in a metal rod like in the neck, just for extra support

 

[Dusty G]

the body does look prett good, I would worry that the upper horn is too thin to support the rest of the body, mabeye you could route a channel in the horn and put in a metal rod like in the neck, just for extra support

The body sides are going to be made from a generally heavier and stronger wood, to help balance the weight of the heavy neck woods, bars and the 10 tuners. I'm not sure which wood I'm going to use, but I'll make sure the horn is very strong either way.

 

[chucko58]

Are those plain steel bars or adjustable truss rods? IMHO you should have truss rods, unless you plan to get lucky by shaping the fingerboard convex and hope it bows into the right shape when strung up. 10 strings are going to exert a lot of tension.

 

[pilotjones]

You'll need to change the treble side horn if you want to access those upper frets. The design almosty looks like a lefty instead of a righty.

 

[Dusty G]

Are those plain steel bars or adjustable truss rods? IMHO you should have truss rods, unless you plan to get lucky by shaping the fingerboard convex and hope it bows into the right shape when strung up. 10 strings are going to exert a lot of tension.

The neck won't bend under the string tension at all. I did quite a bit of experimentation. It won't bow, let alone be backbowed by adjustable rods. The idea w/ this one is a neck that simply won't move! Ipe and Brazilian Redwood are insanely stiff.

Pilotjones,
The style will not leave it as limited as it appears, as the frets will need to be quite a bit more fanned than shown in the pic, to allow me to use the string guages I want to use Basically, the angle at the topmost frets is going to be very exagerrated, to keep the more commontly used frets more easily playable. The parallel fret will probably be the 7th or 9th. I have to finalize all the details before I can bring it all together.

More pics soon!

 

[Dusty G]

Ok, some progress:

I planed the face of the headstock down for the face plate, which is still not shaped, but cut to the minimum amount of wood needed, and the fretboard blank is glueing up right now. Tomorrow I'll shape the neck taper and glue the face plate and back plate to the headstock.

Sorry for the poor image quality, my camera sux

 

[Steve'r]

Wooden necks will always move, though.

Changes in climate affect wood in ways that cannot be prevented No matter how stiff the wood in the neck is, a trip across country or a spin around the sun WILL make that neck shift.

 

[Steve'r]

Also, are you doing a fanned fretboard by yourself?
They are ridiculously tricky to do right, especially with the required accuracy.
Stainless steel frets are also hell, PARTICULARLY on a fanned fret bass, where the frets need to not only curve, but basically twist. You have to preshape the fret before it goes into the board; you can't just bang it into place like a normal fret.

 

[Dusty G]

Hi. I think your idea is a good one.Your tuning scheme then , would be:
B0 E1 A1 D2 G2 C3 F3 Bb3 Eb4 and Ab4

My Adler single course 12 is either tuned C0-G4 or C#0-Ab4. At that time (2003) when Mike Adler and I were planning this 12-string and a 13-string, the strings didn't exist to allow for this tuning. So Mike did a 34"-32" fanned fretboard. 32" was still too much for existing strings to handle G4 and Ab4. So I embarked on a quest develope superior strings that would work.

Mike Sherman built the 30" scale 10-string guitar for Eric Lovett, tuned C1 to A4. The A440 string at 30" is my high A string, but it is plain steel. I have small diameter roundwounds in the works, but right now, I think I have the only string, wound or plain, that will give you a usable Ab4 (415.30Hz) string.

My "Super 8" an .008 plain steel gives me a sturdy G4 and Ab4 at the 32" scale. I have a plain steel string that will tune to G4 at 34" that should work as an Ab4 string at 33". Yves Carbonne uses it to tune to F#4 on his 34" scale Legend XII fretless 12-string.
That same string has made a span of 3 octaves available for the 4x3 12-strings octave basses. It also allows me to tune my Adler 11-string F0-G4.
If you can't find an Ab4 string when your bass is finnished,send me an email.

Thanks Garry!
I'm not sure how I'm going to fan the frets with this bass, but I was considering a difference of up to 10" between the scale length of the top and bottom string, with a parallel fret somewhere between the 9th and 5th fret. This is definitely a different approach to a 10 string bass, but that's what makes me interested to try it out. The hopeful result I'm looking for will be the same range of notes, a somewhat conventional set of strings, (hopefully) and good playability.
It may end up being slightly impractical, (hopefully not) but I'm going to try to achieve this while making it as comfortable to play as possible. The high strings will have a much shorter scale length, but will have the angle in the more commonly played frets minimized by the parallel fret being in a lower position. If this works out the way I'm planning it, I may not need any specially made strings, but I'm not counting on that, so I'm going to keep your offer in mind, and I thank you!

 

[Dusty G]

Also, are you doing a fanned fretboard by yourself?
They are ridiculously tricky to do right, especially with the required accuracy.
Stainless steel frets are also hell, PARTICULARLY on a fanned fret bass, where the frets need to not only curve, but basically twist. You have to preshape the fret before it goes into the board; you can't just bang it into place like a normal fret.

Yeah, I'm going to do it all by myself!

 

[pilotjones]

Keep in mind that the fret angle is greatly affected by the string spacing. There's a give-and-take where a wide spacing at the nut or bridge will be result in less angle.

 

[Steve'r]

Also, fretwork needs to be accurate to within .001 of an inch to be able to intonate properly. And that's hard enough on a standard bass without fanned frets, if you don't have a very reliable jig or CNC machine.

If you're really serious about this, contact Sheldon Dingwall. I know a few builders who have done fanned fret basses for various people, and they've all contacted Sheldon to get the board made. He has a system set up, and is apparently quite reasonable, and nice to work with.

 

[Dusty G]

Keep in mind that the fret angle is greatly affected by the string spacing. There's a give-and-take where a wide spacing at the nut or bridge will be result in less angle.

Yes, I use FretFind, where those factors are put into the equation. If I have time to mark the slots today, I'll post a pic tonight. What I do is I print the fretboard out, and glue-stick it to the fretboard.

 

[Steve'r]

Does it accomidate for fanned systems?
And what will you use to cut?

 

[Dusty G]

Yes, fretfind maps out fanned frets, and more accurately than the Novax system, because it takes string spacing into consideration.
I have a fretsaw that gives me a good finger press fit, and I'm going to epoxy the frets in. The fretboard will have no radius.

I just glued the front and back laminates to the headstock. I decided to use paduak for both the front and back laminates instead of doing a continuous cocobolo look.

 

[Musiclogic]

That is a really pretty piece of Cocobolo, I have one similar going on a 5 string single cut for a guy in Detroit. I think Cocoblo has become my favorite FB wood just for looks. My new Personal bass is getting a Cocobolo top and back.

Looking good Dusty