Double Bass Dvorak 8 in G major

[Andy Mopley]

On my music, start is marked up as Allegro con brio, in 4/4.
Depending on the piece, this tempo is in typically the range of 124-156 bpm.
Yet, the opening to me feels a lot more like Adagio, based also on a few recordings.
Is there something I am missing here?

Regards to all

 

[Don C]

Most of the first movement is usually done in 2, that's probably why it sounds like Adagio to you. Some conductors like to alternate between 2 and 4 as it gets into the second page.

 

[AGCurry]

I find tempo markings and the way pieces are actually played to be often confusing and/or misleading.

 

[elberon]

I find tempo markings and the way pieces are actually played to be often confusing and/or misleading.

Yeah, conductors are famous for putting their individual "stamp" on pieces, which often translates into their ignoring composers' tempo markings (and metronome settings). See Beethoven's 9th Symphony for many examples of this.

 

[Riff Ranger]

markings (and metronome settings). See Beethoven's 9th Symphony for many examples of this.

I’ve often noticed it on his 5th Symphony; now I’ll have to listen for it on the 9th.

 

[elberon]

I’ve often noticed it on his 5th Symphony; now I’ll have to listen for it on the 9th.

Two prominent places in the 9th are:

1. The bass recitative (beginning of 4th mvt) which most modern conductors take much slower and rubato than Beethoven marked as Presto dotted half = 96. Compare Karajan with Norrington. Norrington does it as marked and it sounds crazy fast but is actually what Beethoven likely intended.

2. the Allegro assai vivace alla Marcia (6/8 section, 2 flats early in the 4th mvt) marked dotted quarter = 84 which modern conductors take way faster. Compare the same two conductors.

Most perform it inline with Karajan and diss the more “historically correct” interpretations. Beethoven was very specific with metronome markings and thought the newly invented device would result in performances that he intended but conductors always think they know better or assume that Beethoven or the editors made mistakes that they then “correct.” Crazy.

 

[Riff Ranger]

Two prominent places in the 9th are:

1. The bass recitative (beginning of 4th mvt) which most modern conductors take much slower and rubato than Beethoven marked as Presto dotted half = 96. Compare Karajan with Norrington. Norrington does it as marked and it sounds crazy fast but is actually what Beethoven likely intended.

2. the Allegro assai vivace alla Marcia (6/8 section, 2 flats early in the 4th mvt) marked dotted quarter = 84 which modern conductors take way faster. Compare the same two conductors.

Most perform it inline with Karajan and diss the more “historically correct” interpretations. Beethoven was very specific with metronome markings and thought the newly invented device would result in performances that he intended but conductors always think they know better or assume that Beethoven or the editors made mistakes that they then “correct.” Crazy.

Thank you for the detailed heads up! And I kinda (kinda) can’t blame conductors for putting their own stamps on these things; I know I have my own ideas of how Beethoven’s 5th Symphony “should” sound, and I neither have knowledge of Beethoven’s notes nor the musical knowledge of any reputable conductor

 

[SAlcott]

It can be baffling sometimes-4 is in 2, 2 is in 4, etc.; best thing is to let the conductor say how it will be conducted and go from there. Check out the last movement of Tchaikovsky 1 for some metric modulation wackiness.

 

[Mark_T]

Two prominent places in the 9th are:
Most perform it inline with Karajan and diss the more “historically correct” interpretations. Beethoven was very specific with metronome markings and thought the newly invented device would result in performances that he intended but conductors always think they know better or assume that Beethoven or the editors made mistakes that they then “correct.” Crazy.

I seem to recall from music history that there were some concerns about the accuracy of Beethoven's reference metronome and that was sometimes used to justify the alternative tempo interpretations. I don't really have opinions about who's right or whether there's any truth to the speculation about the metronome.

 

[elberon]

I think I might agree, the recitative sounds a little strange played at a presto tempo like a scherzo. Maybe it's all the recordings in the slower style I heard and when my teachers played it when I was introduced to it.