dynamic mic question

[byacey]

if you have something like this you're good to go:
View attachment 3799478

These sort of adapters are notorious for having the lowest grade, garbage transformers that money can buy. A half decent passive DI box used backwards will likely yield better results. Beyer actually makes some decent quality miniature transformers in a MU metal can that are perfect for this application if you're into DIY.

 

[JRA]

These sort of adapters are notorious for having the lowest grade, garbage transformers that money can buy. A half decent passive DI box used backwards will likely yield better results. Beyer actually makes some decent quality miniature transformers in a MU metal can that are perfect for this application if you're into DIY.

i took it the OP to be in search of a 'fix' --- not a QC issue, but a fix. those impedence transformers work. whether or not they are of the 'highest quality' is actually relative to use/context. but i can tell by your language that you just don't like them! cool beans!

 

[byacey]

i took it the OP to be in search of a 'fix' --- not a QC issue, but a fix. those impedence transformers work. whether or not they are of the 'highest quality' is actually relative to use/context. but i can tell by your language that you just don't like them! cool beans!

In the past, I've run tests on various brands of these inline adapters looking for a cheap source of halfway decent audio transformers. My tests generally found them to have low frequency roll-off and rising distortion at bass frequencies, even at low signal levels. They usually don't have an electrostatic shield between the windings, which is important if being used as an isolation transformer where high impedances are involved.

 

[shwashwa]

In the past, I've run tests on various brands of these inline adapters looking for a cheap source of halfway decent audio transformers. My tests generally found them to have low frequency roll-off and rising distortion at bass frequencies, even at low signal levels. They usually don't have an electrostatic shield between the windings, which is important if being used as an isolation transformer where high impedances are involved.

that is exactly the premise behind this piece of gear. any thoughts?
BOOSTMATE MICROPHONE TO HI-Z CONVERTER — TONECRAFT AUDIO

 

[byacey]

that is exactly the premise behind this piece of gear. any thoughts?
BOOSTMATE MICROPHONE TO HI-Z CONVERTER — TONECRAFT AUDIO

I can't say, as I'm not familiar with the product, but they do directly address the shortcomings I mentioned in my previous post and advertise using a quality transformer.

 

[Frenchy-Lefty]

I understand but take it from someone who worked in studios for 25 yrs: Keep it simple

- The whole "buying a mic preamp" thing is a bit overated now that many recording interfaces have great converters and good preamps. You could get a SSL2 interface for $275 or an Audient ID14 and get really nice quality for home brewed recordings
.
- Your Beyer is a pretty good mic and it should be nice to mic the upright (I personally like to use an Audio Technica AT4033 for that job. You find them used for $200 but you really don't need to)

At the end of the day, I noticed that most people who come to me saying "I don't get good results with my recording gear, I need better equipment". In 99% of the situations, I just give them a few tips on levels, mic placements, acoustic (the most important) and mixing. After they usually come to me saying "damn, I can't believe how good my recording sounds now"

Also, your initial idea is a bad idea for the following reasons:
1. You take a good quality low impedance signal (which by nature does not degrade through an XLR cable)
2. You turn it to a high impedance signal (which is going to degrade through the crappy converter and the cable)
3. Go through an electric bass preamp (which by nature is not transparent and will alter the sound of your upright). Unlike an electric bass, an upright bass signal is great as it is without tone modifications. Keep in mind that Ellectric bass preamps are designed to fatten the signal
4. The signal will then exit your preamp with a line level or mic level and again hit another preamp (the one from the interface). Cascading preamps will further degrade the signal.

All in all a bad idea.
Feel free to PM me if you need help in purchasing anything btw.

But as I said, In you current situation I would just work on mic placement with the mic plugged into the interface.

- Try to record the upright in a large space since small untreated rooms often get a boxy sound. Unless you can get your room some acoustic treatment.
Large high ceiling wooden room are wonderful to record. Although a dynamic mic will mitigate potential acoustic problems with your space.

- Mic 8-10" away from the bass. Experiment a lot on positioning.
I like to favor the attack and mic somewhere between the fingers and the soundhole

- Signal level. Don't go over -10db peak.
- when you mix use a high pass filter around 30-35 Hz to clean up the lows.

Good luck.

 

[byacey]

Double post

 

[seamonkey]

These sort of adapters are notorious for having the lowest grade, garbage transformers that money can buy. A half decent passive DI box used backwards will likely yield better results. Beyer actually makes some decent quality miniature transformers in a MU metal can that are perfect for this application if you're into DIY.

IMHO I find them to be fine.
They are easy to test with a standard audio interface by do a loop back test.
Brands like Shure A85F are high quality. As good as the transformers than any dynamic mic has.

$18 US
https://smile.amazon.com/Shure-A85F-Transformer-Female-4-Inch/dp/B0006NMUHW

 

[byacey]

Shure or other well known professional manufacturers are an exception. I was speaking more about Mikufung offshore brand stuff, all of questionable quality.

 

[shwashwa]

I understand but take it from someone who worked in studios for 25 yrs: Keep it simple

- The whole "buying a mic preamp" thing is a bit overated now that many recording interfaces have great converters and good preamps. You could get a SSL2 interface for $275 or an Audient ID14 and get really nice quality for home brewed recordings
.
- Your Beyer is a pretty good mic and it should be nice to mic the upright (I personally like to use an Audio Technica AT4033 for that job. You find them used for $200 but you really don't need to)

At the end of the day, I noticed that most people who come to me saying "I don't get good results with my recording gear, I need better equipment". In 99% of the situations, I just give them a few tips on levels, mic placements, acoustic (the most important) and mixing. After they usually come to me saying "damn, I can't believe how good my recording sounds now"

Also, your initial idea is a bad idea for the following reasons:
1. You take a good quality low impedance signal (which by nature does not degrade through an XLR cable)
2. You turn it to a high impedance signal (which is going to degrade through the crappy converter and the cable)
3. Go through an electric bass preamp (which by nature is not transparent and will alter the sound of your upright). Unlike an electric bass, an upright bass signal is great as it is without tone modifications. Keep in mind that Ellectric bass preamps are designed to fatten the signal
4. The signal will then exit your preamp with a line level or mic level and again hit another preamp (the one from the interface). Cascading preamps will further degrade the signal.

All in all a bad idea.
Feel free to PM me if you need help in purchasing anything btw.

But as I said, In you current situation I would just work on mic placement with the mic plugged into the interface.

- Try to record the upright in a large space since small untreated rooms often get a boxy sound. Unless you can get your room some acoustic treatment.
Large high ceiling wooden room are wonderful to record. Although a dynamic mic will mitigate potential acoustic problems with your space.

- Mic 8-10" away from the bass. Experiment a lot on positioning.
I like to favor the attack and mic somewhere between the fingers and the soundhole

- Signal level. Don't go over -10db peak.
- when you mix use a high pass filter around 30-35 Hz to clean up the lows.

Good luck.

Thanks for the great advice. I'm able to get a very nice clear and modern sound with this microphone. Very full yet articulate. My temporary solution is to record a clean sound and then try to process it afterwards either with software, or I had success reamping it through a bass preamp pedal. The sound I'm going for on this particular track is a very old school blue note sound. Reminiscent of the bass sound on the original blue bossa recording by Joe Henderson. The bass fills up the track and you can hear it even distorting a bit. I had success last night recording a clean signal and then running that after the fact to a pedal. But now I noticed that when I do that I get all types of clicks artifacts from my sound card, but I was able to get the tone that I'm looking for and still preserve the clean sound of the Beyer mic

 

[Frenchy-Lefty]

For that sound just do that:
- Record your clean track
- Download the free plugin called Izotope Vinyl
- Apply the plugin to the bass and select the decade in the plugin: 1960 (there is a switch for 1980, 1970, 1960...)
You'll get exactly the sound you are looking for.

 

[shwashwa]

For that sound just do that:
- Record your clean track
- Download the free plugin called Izotope Vinyl
- Apply the plugin to the bass and select the decade in the plugin: 1960 (there is a switch for 1980, 1970, 1960...)
You'll get exactly the sound you are looking for.

Nice. is there a plug-in that you know of that will simulate the sound of playing something through a saturated cinemag transformer?

 

[Frenchy-Lefty]

The best plugin I tried for bass was the REDDI by Kush. It really sounds like a real tube distortion (fatten the signal by creating a subtle harmonic distortion without sounding like a distortion pedal). I think I paid $50 for it. Otherwise Klangehlm SDRR is nice. I think the preset called rock bass.

 

[Frenchy-Lefty]

And of course, there is a plugin for everything so here is the Cinemag transformer plugin

CTX Cinemag Transformer Colour by DIYRE | Analog Circuit Plugin | Big Noise Radio


I would definitely NOT pay $100 for it and I really don't think it will take you a bit closer to the sound you are after.
Blue Bossa was recorded at a time when recording engineers still wore white coats to work. There are a million reasons why those recording sounded the way they did. Actually getting some different strings and a high action on the upright would probably more important.

 

[shwashwa]

And of course, there is a plugin for everything so here is the Cinemag transformer plugin

CTX Cinemag Transformer Colour by DIYRE | Analog Circuit Plugin | Big Noise Radio


I would definitely NOT pay $100 for it and I really don't think it will take you a bit closer to the sound you are after.
Blue Bossa was recorded at a time when recording engineers still wore white coats to work. There are a million reasons why those recording sounded the way they did. Actually getting some different strings and a high action on the upright would probably more important.

got, the gut strings and high action already...

 

[AGCurry]

I understand but take it from someone who worked in studios for 25 yrs: Keep it simple

- The whole "buying a mic preamp" thing is a bit overated now that many recording interfaces have great converters and good preamps. You could get a SSL2 interface for $275 or an Audient ID14 and get really nice quality for home brewed recordings
.
- Your Beyer is a pretty good mic and it should be nice to mic the upright (I personally like to use an Audio Technica AT4033 for that job. You find them used for $200 but you really don't need to)

At the end of the day, I noticed that most people who come to me saying "I don't get good results with my recording gear, I need better equipment". In 99% of the situations, I just give them a few tips on levels, mic placements, acoustic (the most important) and mixing. After they usually come to me saying "damn, I can't believe how good my recording sounds now"

Also, your initial idea is a bad idea for the following reasons:
1. You take a good quality low impedance signal (which by nature does not degrade through an XLR cable)
2. You turn it to a high impedance signal (which is going to degrade through the crappy converter and the cable)
3. Go through an electric bass preamp (which by nature is not transparent and will alter the sound of your upright). Unlike an electric bass, an upright bass signal is great as it is without tone modifications. Keep in mind that Ellectric bass preamps are designed to fatten the signal
4. The signal will then exit your preamp with a line level or mic level and again hit another preamp (the one from the interface). Cascading preamps will further degrade the signal.

All in all a bad idea.
Feel free to PM me if you need help in purchasing anything btw.

But as I said, In you current situation I would just work on mic placement with the mic plugged into the interface.

- Try to record the upright in a large space since small untreated rooms often get a boxy sound. Unless you can get your room some acoustic treatment.
Large high ceiling wooden room are wonderful to record. Although a dynamic mic will mitigate potential acoustic problems with your space.

- Mic 8-10" away from the bass. Experiment a lot on positioning.
I like to favor the attack and mic somewhere between the fingers and the soundhole

- Signal level. Don't go over -10db peak.
- when you mix use a high pass filter around 30-35 Hz to clean up the lows.

Good luck.

Great post! Recording double bass doesn't benefit from using a bunch of gear unless you don't want it to sound like double bass. I would take issue only with the recommendation for mic placement: 8-10 inches is IMO too close, and double basses have "f" holes, not a sound hole. But "experiment" is right.

 

[Frenchy-Lefty]

I only specified 8-10 because he is using a dynamic mic. With a condenser I do 12-18" but indeed experimentation is the key.

 

[byacey]

the audio interface does have xlr input, but i am trying to run the mic through a tube preamp that i have before it goes in to the interface. i found a way with plugging the mic into the headway, taking the 1/4 inch line out of the headway and running it through the tube preamp then into the interface, and i also take the xlr out of the headway and run it straight into another channel, so i am able to compare the two sounds. not ideal i know, but as i said i was trying to avoid buying something new. eventually ill wade through all the mic pre amplifier options out there.

Typically for recording, you want the flattest, quietest preamp for accurate and pristine reproduction.

 

[shwashwa]

so i am looking at the various neve 1073 clones... any advice?

 

[byacey]

I don't have any experience with the 1073, but from what I know about it, the transformers quality can make or break this as a useful piece of gear. For recording, I don't really see the necessity for EQ; EQ can always be applied during mixing.

Just a simple preamp with an input pad, phase reverse switch, phantom power, low pass filter and a gain control is all you really need for your application.