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e-bow on fretless as practice tool

#21
bassstrangler said:
Have you ever used an eBow on an electric bass? It's specifically made for 6 string guitars and the part made to go over the strings is slotted or spaced for that specific instrument.

So when used on the bass (and yes I've tried it) it's a PITA. Unless of course they have one for bass now. I didn't Google that.
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Les Fret said:
No there is not an Ebow specially made for bass. I am surprised none has ever done this. I think it would sell a lot. It would make it much easier than using the normal model.
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Personally I find it not a problem to use with the bass, at least my 19mm basses, because the entire body fits perfectly between the adjacent strings. I use a modified grip which uses my thumb and fingertips to form outer grooves. This in turn creates a very sensitive tactile reference for position and 'weight' - you can feel the other strings 'pushing back' as you get closer to the string in play...

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As for helping with intonation, not really. One of the main points of working on intonation with the bow is to gain awareness of how right arm movements necessary for bowing get transferred through the player's body and the instrument to the left hand, and from there to build technique that controls and isolates it. Since there are no real physical aspects to using an ebow that is a moot point.
 
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#22
SteveCS said:
Personally I find it not a problem to use with the bass, at least my 19mm basses, because the entire body fits perfectly between the adjacent strings. I use a modified grip which uses my thumb and fingertips to form outer grooves. This in turn creates a very sensitive tactile reference for position and 'weight' - you can feel the other strings 'pushing back' as you get closer to the string in play...

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As for helping with intonation, not really. One of the main points of working on intonation with the bow is to gain awareness of how right arm movements necessary for bowing get transferred through the player's body and the instrument to the left hand, and from there to build technique that controls and isolates it. Since there are no real physical aspects to using an ebow that is a moot point.
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That's exactly how I do it! It sure works but it is a lot easier on guitar so a special Ebow for bass would be better. As I said I am surprised that it isn't already there. One thing is that the thick strings don't speak as well and fast as on guitar. That goes for all sustainers. I have had plenty.
 
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#23
bholder said:
What you do with your right hand has nothing to do with intonation, that's your left hand's (and ears') job. Learn fretless first, then add the ebow when you can play in tune, that'd be my advice.
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Playing long notes helps to improve intonation. That’s why practicing with a bow is a great tool. Brass one read players do the same by blowing long note.
Right and left hands have to work together. Plucking through too quickly doesn’t allow the player to hear the note to correct pitch.
 
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#24
swarfrat said:
If you search the forums I've seen a number of threads about DB and EUB players practicing with a bow even if they only play pizzicato.

Does this extend to the e-bow on fretless? It's a cool effect and I'm sure I want to explore it later on, but I'm curious about the intonation practice effect and if it's worth picking one up day one as a total fretless noob. Will it help my intonation or is this an advanced technique that will only add to the frustration of a guitar player diving into an unlined fretless bass?
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I don't think so. Double bass players are confronted with a lack of sustain and clarity while playing pizzicato compared to arco. These two problems make harder to perceive intonation issues.

Electric bass has almost infinite sustain and clarity. You shouldn't have any problems in understanding if you're in tune or not.
 
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#25
Luigir said:
I don't think so. Double bass players are confronted with a lack of sustain and clarity while playing pizzicato compared to arco. These two problems make harder to perceive intonation issues.

Electric bass has almost infinite sustain and clarity. You shouldn't have any problems in understanding if you're in tune or not.
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Thanks - that gets to the heart of the issue. I wasn't really thinking about the double bass' rapid decay relative to a an electric bass. The electric bass doesn't have the big acoustic box stealing all its energy. That makes a ton of sense
 
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#27
The decay rate of a DB played pizz is much more rapid than for most fretless EB. The bow helps with hearing your intonation errors because it gives a you a longer note with a fuller sound, whereas on fretless EB, IMHO, that's not really necessary, unless you have rapid decay on it. Most don't. I never had a problem hearing when I was out of tune on any fretless EB I've ever played!
 
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#28
swarfrat said:
DB and EUB players practicing with a bow even if they only play pizzicato.
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I play fretless BG and DB, I don't use ebow.

Bow on DB is good for intonation, because the sound created with bow is much more rich in higher harmonics, making the sound much more comfortable for exact pitch recognition. Oversimplifiied, you could think something like: the bow adds mids and highs to DB sound, which is otherwise very bassy and hard to hear clearly even for the player.

If you want to make your fretless sound more apt to pitch recognition, you could add mids and highs to your sound. You can do it easy on your amp. Or, you can buy a new rounds (which I recommend). But from my experience I can tell that the DB problem doesn't really exist on fretless, unless you use weird EQ setup and very bad dead strings.

If you want to get better with your intonation on fretless, play with playalongs. Scales, arpeggios and stuff. If you find it boring, read something about it (i.e. Mark Levine - Jazz Theory Book) - then you'll likely find it fascinating.
 
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#29
Ebow on fretless bass sounds great. It sounds great with delay/chorus/verb too. I used to play in a trio that I played a fretless with an ebow a lot but mostly for soloing etc. My problem with it was playing something rhytmic at a fast or even at a medium tempo. The notes have very long attack, and you can't play fast notes.

I think Ebow can help getting better with intonation as the note sustains as long as you want (unlike the foam mute underneath the bridge which does the oposite) so you can really hear the pitch. You adjust your left hand positioning, and correct the pitch if necessary as the note is being played. I think that's what DB players mean by "bowing helps with your intonation".
 
#30
Les Fret said:
That's exactly how I do it! It sure works but it is a lot easier on guitar so a special Ebow for bass would be better. As I said I am surprised that it isn't already there. One thing is that the thick strings don't speak as well and fast as on guitar. That goes for all sustainers. I have had plenty.
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Maybe. Personally I don't think I would want anything larger as I like feeling the other strings, but that's just what I'm used to I guess.
As for getting the strings driving, I find that a light tap against the fingerboard helps just to start things off, but I agree that a little more oomph could be useful.
 
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#31
I see where you come form, and I think it is a really creative idea, to use an ebow to learn fretless intonation, but you don't need it

While a double bass, played pizzicato, is usually almost all attack and no sustain - you need to bow to have any level of sustain -, a plucked fretless bass guitar, especially with roundwound strings, already has quite a bit of sustain if you let the note ring out all the way. So you can perfectly practice fretless bassguitar intonation when plucking; the key is to play long notes letting them ring out, and listen what you do and adjust the intonation accordingly. What I find quite helpful there is to close my eyes, blindfold myself or otherwise make sure I am not looking at the fingerboard when practicing.
 
#32
bassstrangler said:
Have you ever used an eBow on an electric bass? It's specifically made for 6 string guitars and the part made to go over the strings is slotted or spaced for that specific instrument.

So when used on the bass (and yes I've tried it) it's a PITA. Unless of course they have one for bass now. I didn't Google that.
Click to expand...
Les Fret said:
No there is not an Ebow specially made for bass. I am surprised none has ever done this. I think it would sell a lot. It would make it much easier than using the normal model.
Click to expand...

They approached Michael Manring (as he's probably the most known bassist who uses one and sometimes two at the same time) asking if he'd like them to make a bass version, but he didn't want so they didn't make it. Bear in mind that Michael has different string sets and tunings, sometimes even uses guitar strings I believe.

I have no problem with it on the G and the D strings. A and E have even slower attack. So I find it a nice effect, but it has it's imitations, you can't be fast as you can with a bow.

However, I think by sustaining the note and adjusting your left hand on the fingerboard you can correct your intonation. At least it helped me.
 
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#33
swarfrat said:
Will it help my intonation or is this an advanced technique that will only add to the frustration of a guitar player diving into an unlined fretless bass?
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That second thing.

In my experience of using an ebow on fretless, it adds so much distortion to the sound, and has a tendency to skip up an octave when you are playing lower notes that it wouldn't help as an intonation practice tool. In fact, it's often a bit more difficult to hear the precise note you're playing with it than without it.
 
#34
E-bow on bass sounds great. And it can be fun to play with. I have one and do use it on my fretless basses. Kinda doing the Manring thing.

I got it years ago, and it is difficult in its own right to use. In fact, much attention needs to be used in order to get constant bowing from it. Various places on the string in connection to the Pups makes huge differences in the sustain of the bowing.

I'd think it would be more of a hindrance in learning proper left hand technique on a fretless. Due to the fact that you need a lot of attention to the right hand use of the E-bow.
 
#35
Les Fret said:
No there is not an Ebow specially made for bass. I am surprised none has ever done this. I think it would sell a lot. It would make it much easier than using the normal model.
Click to expand...

I thought they had one that was tested, but never went into production. But, if I'm remembering correctly, it was a long time ago. I remember when I was first getting into guitar and bass, it was pre-internet and if you wanted to hear a demo of the Ebow, you could call an 800 number and listen to a 60 second demo on the phone. Of course, quality was terrible.
 
#36
Just found my Ebow pin that has the pick crossed out on it. It makes me laugh because do they really think any guitar player would just abandon picks for the Ebow?

One of the reasons I sold my fretless was because when I would play it at gigs I found I spent so much time watching my hands for intonation. I could have practiced in the dark or built up the muscle memory, but I just didn’t like the tone of the fretless for every song to make it my life’s goal.
 

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