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eBay and the rickenfaker witch hunt...

#41
geddeeee said:
It depends whether the 'Ricken-Waffen' police see it. (Talking about the Rick based forums).
They fall over themselves if they see a 'faker'...
I own a Ricky, but this sort of behaviour really pisses me off!!!

Some of the copies are pretty good. They're clearly NOT a real RIC, I don't see why the 'Waffen' can't live and let live...

This snobbery does not help. Most of them are more interested in how shiny and 'stock' there basses are.

Annoying??? Yep....
Click to expand...

Ricken-Waffen? Armed Ricken? In this day and age, you really want to go there? Armed? Seriously?

Before you start throwing some German language around, know exactly what it means.

Verstehen?

It's all about business and protecting your product. Let's say you invent the Wigit. It has several moving parts in it that may/will wear out in time. Ids it OK, for some other company to copy your design and undercut you in replacement parts as well?? What about all the time and money invested in your original design? You should just bend over and let everyone copy it and make money off of your hard work and vision??

Fender, Gibson, and host of others neglected to protect their visions. Rickenbacker did and they are the "bad guys" for being proactive? OK, move to China and pump out whatever the hell you want. China does not comply with any established copyright standards.

To the OP, you bought an illegal copy of an instrument that was most likely halted due to legal action by RIC. While you may have bought it second hand, it is still going to trip eBays security every single time. Everyone knows how difficult eBay is with things like this. with eBay there is no appeal process, so to say. It meets their criteria as a Copyright infringed item, sell it somewhere else. They won'r bend on this and they don't care if they lose your business. It sucks but that that is ebay for ya.

Sepp
 
#42
That poster was speaking in english, and colloquially, in order to present an image of arrogant and aggressive policing...and frankly all you are doing in your post is reinforcing his opinion that there are indeed Rickenbacker zealots, jihadists and mouth foaming zombie police with no sense of balance...he is trying to sell an old, short scale bass...hardly a Rick impersonation except to the blind.

p.s. the above post was stated in an english colloquial manner as alternative means of representing the same type of personality, and so to prevent further furore, no disrespect is intended to radical jews from the 1st century, devout muslims or zombies. Any reference to anyone alive, dead or undead is purely coincidental and no animals, other than those eaten by zombies were harmed in the production of this post.

Kopfjaeger said:
Ricken-Waffen? Armed Ricken? In this day and age, you really want to go there? Armed? Seriously?

Before you start throwing some German language around, know exactly what it means.

Verstehen?

It's all about business and protecting your product. Let's say you invent the Wigit. It has several moving parts in it that may/will wear out in time. Ids it OK, for some other company to copy your design and undercut you in replacement parts as well?? What about all the time and money invested in your original design? You should just bend over and let everyone copy it and make money off of your hard work and vision??

Fender, Gibson, and host of others neglected to protect their visions. Rickenbacker did and they are the "bad guys" for being proactive? OK, move to China and pump out whatever the hell you want. China does not comply with any established copyright standards.

To the OP, you bought an illegal copy of an instrument that was most likely halted due to legal action by RIC. While you may have bought it second hand, it is still going to trip eBays security every single time. Everyone knows how difficult eBay is with things like this. with eBay there is no appeal process, so to say. It meets their criteria as a Copyright infringed item, sell it somewhere else. They won'r bend on this and they don't care if they lose your business. It sucks but that that is ebay for ya.

Sepp
Click to expand...
 
#45
mystic38 said:
That poster was speaking in english, and colloquially, in order to present an image of arrogant and aggressive policing...and frankly all you are doing in your post is reinforcing his opinion that there are indeed Rickenbacker zealots, jihadists and mouth foaming zombie police with no sense of balance...he is trying to sell an old, short scale bass...hardly a Rick impersonation except to the blind.

p.s. the above post was stated in an english colloquial manner as alternative means of representing the same type of personality, and so to prevent further furore, no disrespect is intended to radical jews from the 1st century, devout muslims or zombies. Any reference to anyone alive, dead or undead is purely coincidental and no animals, other than those eaten by zombies were harmed in the production of this post.
Click to expand...

Hit the nail right on the head there, mate.

I WAS speaking 'colloquially'. Zealot being a much kinder and closer word for those sort of people.

I do 'verstehen' the German language. I lived there for 7 years when I was a boy... so...

I am a RIC owner, but the over the top attitude of some of these people really 'gets my goat'.. (Another colloquialism).

As for the truss rod adjustment advice on a RIC.. Well don't get me started. A quarter turn a day??? So a week to straighten my neck?? Give me a break.... Well you get my meaning!!!

As I said: live and let live people... It's only wood and metal!!!!
 
#47
I still don't understand your use of waffen. No need to explain it. I'm guessing it was a poor choice of word.

In the grand scheme of things, it's ebays policy. Will RIC put their lawyers on an individual for selling a "lawsuit" Rickenfaker> Highly doubtful but these instruments violate ebays policy so they are removed. Have an issue with that? Don't sell it on ebay.

As for the "quarter turn a day", that's so some moron with a wrench does not crank the rods expecting instant neck straightening. Pressure and tension exerted on wood takes a period of time to change shape. RIC is not alone with a listing a waiting period after adjustment of a wooden neck. Add an additional truss rod and you have the potential to do some weird/damaging things to your neck if you rush things. 24 hours is an exaggerated time frame but depending on humidity and amount of change needed, it's not a bad rule of thumb.

It's really not rocket science.

Sepp
 
#48
I think this guy is happy with his rickenfakers ;)
but notice they do not say RK on the TR's.
the_troop2.jpg

bass_bs2.jpg

.
 
#50
mystic38 said:
agreed,

and yet you are allowed to sell pre lawsuit G&L, SX and that Martin ripoff i cant recall.
Click to expand...

Forget pre-lawsuit anything. Go to ebay - musical instruments - guitar and type "lawsuit" into the search bar. See what comes back...

Lots of old Ibanez (and other) "lawsuit" era stuff. And other than the name on the headstock, at a glance, they're indistinguishable from the guitars they copied.

If ebay itself (disregarding Rickenbacker for a moment) is so adamantly opposed to copyright infringement, and the search I described above is in and of itself a violation of that policy, then why are those instruments allowed to be advertised as "lawsuit" guitars? And why are there so many hits if you do a search that way? Couldn't they block the term? Technically, the manufacturers of those "lawsuit" guitars & basses lost the legal cases against them. They had to make changes to the headstock design or other components (in Ibanez's case, they discontinued them altogether and focused on their own designs). And it's still okay to sell those on ebay, but not a 40 year old Ibanez Ric clone, which incidentally was not a bad bass for the most part, but was definitely not a Ric, and anybody who's paying attention wouldn't mistake it for one either. Yes, I've played a few of them & I own a 4001, but I don't understand the fanatasism over a private indivdual selling an old Ibanez or Kay copy to another private individual.

That doesn't apply to the junk coming out of China that blatantly says "Rickenbacker" on the TRC. An educated buyer won't mistake them for the real deal, but an unsuspecting newbie might.

Could the Ric police shut down a private sale here on TB?

And FWIW, that short scale Kay looks about as much like a Ric as the image in the Oh the irony post does.
 
#51
Kopfjaeger said:
I still don't understand your use of waffen. No need to explain it. I'm guessing it was a poor choice of word.

In the grand scheme of things, it's ebays policy. Will RIC put their lawyers on an individual for selling a "lawsuit" Rickenfaker> Highly doubtful but these instruments violate ebays policy so they are removed. Have an issue with that? Don't sell it on ebay.

As for the "quarter turn a day", that's so some moron with a wrench does not crank the rods expecting instant neck straightening. Pressure and tension exerted on wood takes a period of time to change shape. RIC is not alone with a listing a waiting period after adjustment of a wooden neck. Add an additional truss rod and you have the potential to do some weird/damaging things to your neck if you rush things. 24 hours is an exaggerated time frame but depending on humidity and amount of change needed, it's not a bad rule of thumb.

It's really not rocket science.

Sepp
Click to expand...

The quarter turn a day IS overkill IMO. I've even heard of an eighth of a turn too... Sheesh!!!

I straighten my neck the 'old fashioned' way (a la 4001).
Pull neck into correct position and snug up truss rod nuts. Done. Time taken: 10 minutes...

That's easier and puts less stress on the rods and nuts.

I obviously check over the next few days as the wood settles, but more often than not, it does the trick....

I realise RIC have copyright on their instruments, and rightly so. It's just the telltale attitude from the hardcore RIC owners that I personally find offensive.

If a person was deliberately labelling a copy, a Rickenbacker, then fair enough. But, if it's labelled a Kay, Rondo, Ibanez... or whatever, then OK. As I stated, these instruments are clearly not RICs, or of the same quality, so I don't see the problem...

But, each to their own.....
 
#53
Geddeeee,

NICE!! I'd rather the old style truss rods as well. Set it and forget it, much better in my opinion! But how many "morons" cracked the necks of their 4001's because they had no clue of what they were doing? Sometimes you try to make things as idiot proof as possible. Sometimes you win, sometimes not.

OK, onto the trademark/eBay thing, I don't have the foggiest idea what a Kay looks like but if it has any of the RIC trademark protected features, body shape, headstock shape, pickguard shape ect, chances are the were told to cease production and/or sued. Any basses produced before they were ordered to stop are still out there but can not be sold on ebay since they are in violation of eBays policy. RIC is not coming to the owners home with a chipper. At least I don't think they are. It just has to be sold somewhere else.

Sepp
 
#54
RIC polices the web to prevent sales of infringing items.

This is perfectly within their legal rights, and covers what is called 'trade dress' which includes the body, pickgaurd, and TRC shapes, obviously the Rickenbacker name is covered under the trademark.

NOT stringently shutting down these sales when they come under their attention can result in the loss of their rights to these trademarks.

This is not a matter of moral or personal opinion, it is US trademark law.
What you or I may think of this is irrelevant, it is the law.
Period.

It's hard to understand why so many people have such a hard time grasping this concept.
Gibson and Fender did not pursue illegal copies of their instruments and so had a difficult time when they finally decided to do something about the rampant copying of their designs.
They have made some headway, but are still a long way from being able to fully claim their intellectual property.

It's quite funny how many folks condemn RIC for this, yet when a foreign manufacturer had the audacity to try and market copies of a Ritter design last year at NAMM just as many people were outraged!

Or does everyone forget that already?

For those who have forgotten, here's (one of) the original threads on the Ritter scam:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/real-fake-ritter-877952/

Have a nice day.
;)
 
#55
As I've stated in several of these threads, current manufacturers of Ric copies should be strapped to a rocket and fired at the sun.

If Rickenbacker seriously thinks that interrupting the sale of an old, used, dismorphic copy is generating a sale of a new Ric for them, they need an accompanying flight to the sun. The fact that they (and some Ric owners) have that attitude turns me off to the idea of ever owning one again. That and they just aren't for me.

That Kay looks like a funhouse mirror Ric.
 
#57
I have a real Ric, but I'd love to have a 'faker to go crazy with mods and such. I'd feel weird messing with the real thing. I actually used to have a Univox Stereo Bass, but even it was too nice to mess with. I sold it when I got my first Ric. So buying a fake did not prevent me from still wanting a real one--it was just what I could afford at the time. I still don't understand why they never partnered with one of those Japanese builders in the 70s to make an entry-level version. I'm sure there's a big profit to be had in that (ask Fender and Gibson if it worked out for them).

The funny thing is I've now purchased one fake Ric and two real ones, but Rickenbacker got zero money from any of those purchases, as they were all used. Should I feel bad for that?

I don't.;)
 
#58
We haven't seen a good Rick mod thread for a while....

What others find annoying/infuriating/amusing in the trademark issue I find infinitely amusing in cases of the 'for God's sake, don't mod it' replies.

It's just a bass, do what you like to it, as long as you're aware of the consequences (reduced resale value, reversibility, etc.).
If it makes a more perfect instrument for you, then do what it takes.
 
#59
Kcole4001, Your assessment and description on Trademark infringement is spot on and you described it perfectly. Thanks for that.

For everyone else, once again, it's eBay policy not to allow pirated trademark items to be sold on their site. Just as White power, Nazi, or ,KKK items to be sold. Sure you can list them but if pointed out, they are removed. if a seller attempts to re post any of the "banned" items on ebay, eBay can an has terminated their membership.

A year or so ago a friend purchased an I-Pod off on Ebay for a ridiculous price. So ridiculous that she should have realized it was a fake. Well the damn thing arrived and it was a fake POS. The seller refused to refund her money. She reported the incident to eBay and they froze the guys account. He was using the Apple logo and calling his devices I-pods, which was against eBay rules. Ebay owns Pay Pal, or the other way around, and they froze the Pay Pal assets and Pay Pal refunded her money. Ebay then banned the seller.

Once again, fake trademark infringed items are one of the things you can't sell on ebay. That's ebays rule not RIC.

Oh but I forgot, RIC is to blame for everything. I hear they may have been behind the Lindberg kidnapping as well. Oh, that and I heard they killed Bambi's mom. :hiding:

Sepp
 
#60
This thread makes me not want a Rickenbacker.

Well, maybe that's an exaggeration, but there is something very off-putting about a company that goes out of its way to alienate aspiring Ric owners (how many zillions of people owned a copy before getting their first 'real' Fender?), and a fan/customer base that seems bent on demonising anyone that dares to not shell out a significant amount of cash for a legitimate Ric.
 

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