Ebola Comes To USA

[SteveC]

That is part of the problem, when you come back you have to survive an additional amount of time with no income. That is raising the cost to the health worker for volunteering. Maybe not too bad in rural Mississippi but, financially disastrous in NYC.

Then that has to be addressed somehow.

 

[skychief]

Also it should be pointed out that the Ebola 'screening' which has been employed at JFK airport would not have detected an infection with Dr. Spencer. He was not symptomatic; he had no temperature when he arrived and would have slipped right through the screening process for travelers coming to US from the 'hot zone'. Yet, clearly he was infected with the virus before he boarded the plane

It kind of raises the question: If the 'screening' process doesn't indicate persons affected with Ebola entering the US, what's the point of having them?

 

[SteveC]

Also it should be pointed out that the Ebola 'screening' which has been employed at JFK airport would not have detected an infection with Dr. Spencer. He was not symptomatic; he had no temperature when he arrived and would have slipped right through the screening process for travelers coming to US from the 'hot zone'. Yet, clearly he was infected with the virus before he boarded the plane

It kind of raises the question: If the 'screening' process doesn't indicate persons affected with Ebola entering the US, what's the point of having them?

Exactly. So if screening doesn't do it, then people returning from "hot zones" or whatever should have a mandatory 21 day isolation period. If you aren't infected, we apologize for the inconvenience. If you are, we just stopped the potential spreading of the disease.

 

[BboogieXVII]

I think we might see some common-sense directives for health care professionals returning to the US from the Ebola zone. Perhaps something along the lines of a 21-day 'cool-off' period before personal contact with others. A tragic lapse of judgement by Dr. Spencer has now endangered the health of his fiancee and two others he was socializing with.

A little common sense can go a long way.

I agree, the no symptoms part is BS, the virus obviously incubates over a period of time that can be sat out in a safe zone somewhere, not jaunting around NYC possibly spreading the virus.

 

[INTP]

Nina Pham was self-monitoring and caught the symptoms early. Nobody got it from her.
Amber Vinson was self-monitoring and even traveled while carrying the virus. Nobody got it from her.
The Spanish nurse monitored for symptoms, and nobody got it from her.
It is too early to tell for Dr. Spencer, but he flew, went bowling, and rode the subway. Assuming nobody gets it from him, then the presumption that people are not contagious when they don't show symptoms seems to be holding up.

Monitoring for symptoms seems be catching these cases early, before they spread.

I'd really like to see the procedures and equipment enhanced so that no health care worker gets the virus from someone they treat. They are treating people who are highly symptomatic and therefore highly contagious. But we should be able to manage that risk better, IMHO. This seems like a better trade-off of resources than simply isolating all health care workers, regardless of lack of symptoms. There are serious problems with isolating health care workers, and it's easy to overlook the cost of doing so. It takes MANY people to treat a single patient, and it's just not feasible to have all of them out of service for weeks at a time. It doesn't scale well.

If there is evidence that monitoring for symptoms is not working, then we should change that. Of course.

 

[Luke19Boarder]

It kind of raises the question: If the 'screening' process doesn't indicate persons affected with Ebola entering the US, what's the point of having them?

Well, you certainly would want to prevent anyone that is symptomatic from travelling, even if it isn't catching everyone that might be carrying.

 

[Stewie26]

Also, reported by the news, the nurse Amber is suppose to be virus free now.

 

[BboogieXVII]

Nina Pham was self-monitoring and caught the symptoms early. Nobody got it from her.
Amber Vinson was self-monitoring and even traveled while carrying the virus. Nobody got it from her.
The Spanish nurse monitored for symptoms, and nobody got it from her.
It is too early to tell for Dr. Spencer, but he flew, went bowling, and rode the subway. Assuming nobody gets it from him, then the presumption that people are not contagious when they don't show symptoms seems to be holding up.

Monitoring for symptoms seems be catching these cases early, before they spread.

I'd really like to see the procedures and equipment enhanced so that no health care worker gets the virus from someone they treat. They are treating people who are highly symptomatic and therefore highly contagious. But we should be able to manage that risk better, IMHO. This seems like a better trade-off of resources than simply isolating all health care workers, regardless of lack of symptoms. There are serious problems with isolating health care workers, and it's easy to overlook the cost of doing so. It takes MANY people to treat a single patient, and it's just not feasible to have all of them out of service for weeks at a time. It doesn't scale well.

If there is evidence that monitoring for symptoms is not working, then we should change that. Of course.

I have to disagree, isn't this a rather unknown and unstudied disease? EXACTLY how it is spread seems to be up in the air. It's not like all the U.S. doctors are travelling between Africa on a regular basis. The few that do could go through some special precautions it seems until it is proven safe to do otherwise. A little less risky behavior on the part of people who have been exposed to the virus might be prudent.

I would rather have doctors/medical workers prove that their behavior is safe rather than it be proven that it is unsafe. They haven't done the former yet.

 

[sissy kathy]

Exactly. So if screening doesn't do it, then people returning from "hot zones" or whatever should have a mandatory 21 day isolation period. If you aren't infected, we apologize for the inconvenience. If you are, we just stopped the potential spreading of the disease.

You are talking about sequestering 150~ people a day for 3~ weeks. In less than a month there will be 3,000 people in quarantine. The costs will skyrocket,you also have the costs of the guards and attendants to consider. Then there is the question of facilities; where do you house them? Further currently there are screenings at five ports of entry. There are many more points of entry though. None of the persons are flying directly from the infected area; they all must transit through Europe and that opens nearly every point of entry in the country. You are talking about having to establish 50 or so quarantine points, plus all the attendant guards and services that will be required. I think that's extreme and expensive

 

[SteveC]

You are talking about sequestering 150~ people a day for 3~ weeks. In less than a month there will be 6,000 people in quarantine. The costs will skyrocket,you also have the costs of the guards and attendants to consider. Then there is the question of facilities; where do you house them? Further currently there are screenings at five ports of entry. There are many more points of entry though. None of the persons are flying directly from the infected area; they all must transit through Europe and that opens nearly every point of entry in the country. You are talking about having to establish 50 or so quarantine points, plus all the attendant guards and services that will be required. I think that's extreme and expensive

Maybe the quarantine spots need to be at the point of departure. Before you leave an infected area you have to be certified "clear" by someone.

 

[MJ5150]

Paul Allen (Microsoft co-founder and owner of the Portland Trailblazers NBA team) may not be a medical professional, but he is doing what he can to help fight ebola: Invalid Link Removed

-Mike

 

[sissy kathy]

Maybe the quarantine spots need to be at the point of departure. Before you leave an infected area you have to be certified "clear" by someone.

Good theory but, if you were recently infected, as in the case of Mr. Duncan, you will be cleared; and we're back to square one. I think graft and corruption is too endemic in the region to rely on a quarantine in that area of the world.

 

[Hawaii Islander]

Also it should be pointed out that the Ebola 'screening' which has been employed at JFK airport would not have detected an infection with Dr. Spencer. He was not symptomatic; he had no temperature when he arrived and would have slipped right through the screening process for travelers coming to US from the 'hot zone'. Yet, clearly he was infected with the virus before he boarded the plane

It kind of raises the question: If the 'screening' process doesn't indicate persons affected with Ebola entering the US, what's the point of having them?

He did NOT slip through the screening process. He was self monitoring. Look it up. He was following the protocols required at the time. He was never contagious to others through casual contact. Look up casual contact.

 

[petrus61]

Is it true that another doctor that had arrived at the same time as Spencer from W.Africa had self quarantined himself at home for 21 days? I remember it being in a report but I can't seem to find a link. If that is true, it doesn't do much to paint Spencer's actions as vigilant and responsible as they could have been. I've heard just as many medical professionals express surprise that he didn't self quarantine as I have heard say that it wasn't necessary.

The big argument against self quarantining seems to be that one cannot spread the virus before showing symptoms. Symptoms don't all come on in a single instant. There seems to be a progression of physiological changes that don't all take place at once and some cannot be as readily apparent until they are more severe.

 

[skychief]

He did NOT slip through the screening process. He was self monitoring. Look it up. He was following the protocols required at the time. He was never contagious to others through casual contact. Look up casual contact.

Then why is his fiancee and 2 others quarantined? He was clearly not symptomatic when he went bowling with his friends. If casual contact is not a consideration then why must they be quarantined?

Quarantining healthcare workers returning to the United States from the Ebola "hot zone" was one of a number of options being discussed by officials from across the administration, Tom Skinner, a spokesman for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), told Reuters.

I guess i was right (again) !

edit: added link
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/24/us-health-ebola-newyork-idUSKCN0IC2CU20141024

 

[sissy kathy]

Is it true that another doctor that had arrived at the same time as Spencer from W.Africa had self quarantined himself at home for 21 days? I remember it being in a report but I can't seem to find a link. If that is true, it doesn't do much to paint Spencer's actions as vigilant and responsible as they could have been. I've heard just as many medical professionals express surprise that he didn't self quarantine as I have heard say that it wasn't necessary.

The big argument against self quarantining seems to be that one cannot spread the virus before showing symptoms. Symptoms don't all come on in a single instant. There seems to be a progression of physiological changes that don't all take place at once and some cannot be as readily apparent until they are more severe.

Well since Dr. Spencer hasn't been back for 21 days yet, the report can't be true. The 'other' Dr could STILL be under self quarantine though.

 

[INTP]

Then why is his fiancee and 2 others quarantined? He was clearly not symptomatic when he went bowling with his friends. If casual contact is not a consideration then why must they be quarantined?

Quarantining healthcare workers returning to the United States from the Ebola "hot zone" was one of a number of options being discussed by officials from across the administration, Tom Skinner, a spokesman for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), told Reuters.

I guess i was right (again) !

edit: added link
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/24/us-health-ebola-newyork-idUSKCN0IC2CU20141024

From the link in your post:

Health officials emphasized that the virus is not airborne but is spread through direct contact with bodily fluids from an infected person who is showing symptoms.

Three people who had close contact with Spencer were quarantined for observation. The doctor's fiancée was among them and was isolated at the same hospital, and all three were still healthy, officials said.

This is cherry picking to say that this article proves your point and counters the argument that "He was never contagious to others through casual contact".

 

[David Jayne]

Then why is his fiancee and 2 others quarantined? He was clearly not symptomatic when he went bowling with his friends. If casual contact is not a consideration then why must they be quarantined?

It's safe to say he probably had more than 'casual' contact with his fiance. As for the others, no idea. Seems to be overreaching.

 

[skychief]

From the link in your post:

This is cherry picking to say that this article proves your point and counters the argument that "He was never contagious to others through casual contact".

You missed the point i was trying to make. Perhaps I wasn't clear.

I was trying to show that, regardless of whatever the degree of contact Spencer had with his fiancee and friends, he was not symptomatic of Ebola when he was with his friends at the bowling alley. So they had absolutely zero percent (so we're told) chance of contracting the virus.

So my question still stands: Why are these two people being quarantined? It makes no sense.

edit: sp

 

[petrus61]

Well since Dr. Spencer hasn't been back for 21 days yet, the report can't be true. The 'other' Dr could STILL be under self quarantine though.

I should have said "self committed to quarantine FOR 21 days". As I said, I can't parry any info aside from the tidbit I can't find and what I heard on ABC radio earlier today, so it neither proves or disproves anything yet.

Also, just heard over the air that anyone returning from aiding the affected countries will be required to quarantine for 21 days as of today in New York and New Jersey.