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Double Bass Eccles G minor sonata (largo)

@Garagiste I gave it a listen, and overall--sounds good! I could nitpick things like intonation, but judging by your face, you noticed all those things yourself. Other than making sure notes get full value, the main advice I would give is to attack the piece boldly and confidently, even when you are playing piano-pianissimo. You seem a little tentative at times, especially hitting notes around that Bb. Just go for it, and even if your Bb ends up a Bbb, make it a glorious Bbb.
 
@Garagiste I gave it a listen, and overall--sounds good! I could nitpick things like intonation, but judging by your face, you noticed all those things yourself. Other than making sure notes get full value, the main advice I would give is to attack the piece boldly and confidently, even when you are playing piano-pianissimo. You seem a little tentative at times, especially hitting notes around that Bb. Just go for it, and even if your Bb ends up a Bbb, make it a glorious Bbb.
Thanks!
 
Coming along well man. Good job!

I’ve been taught that in general a baroque trill should start from the upper note and should begin slowly before increasing in speed.

There are also those who advocate the use of more harmonics and open strings with baroque stuff so you could take the easy way out on the opening phrase.

If you do keep those early big G string shifts then I think you might want to stick with that approach throughout just for continuity.

I also wonder if your left hand is too high over the fingerboard. The fingers seem very straight. Maybe try playing with the main knuckles more dropped, your elbow can be pretty low when you are on the G string.
 
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Coming along well man. Good job!

I’ve been taught that in general a baroque trill should start from the upper note and should begin slowly before increasing in speed.

I also wonder if your left hand is too high over the fingerboard. The fingers seem very straight. Maybe try playing with the main knuckles more dropped, your elbow can be pretty low when you are on the G string.

the nitty-grittyof trills is more complicated, but yes, this is the main idea. trill from the top unless it's written otherwise (or it sounds really, really bad). Ornamentation is a Pandora's Box, just ask Frederick Neumann.

I, like DFG, also think you should have more of a curve in your fingers here. I think you'll find it takes less mechanical force to "relax into the string" than to push it down with a straight finger.

---
Baroque music's my "thing" and even though this piece is on the whole much more romantic than it is baroque at this point, it's useful to look at it through a baroque lens. Here's my thoughts.

Baroque composers loved to give emphasis to some notes over others. Some quick and dirty things to experiment with:

- if it has a # or b, give it some more weight. Example, the cadential trill in the first and second endings.

- if it's a held dissonance, like a sus 4, or a note that isn't in the chord, give it some weight. Dig in. Tension, to release. example, the E natural in the 5th bar of the second half of the movement.

- Baroque music is made out of "sentence-like" phrases. It's much more like prose than song when it comes to its musical phrasing. Ex. The pickup, and the first bar say one thing, which is then responded to immediately by the second phrase. This is a pretty clear one, which is why this piece is so nice as a teaching tool.

As a final note, if you don't like a bowing then change it. None of the bowings in Zimmerman's edition have anything to do with the bowings in the 1720 edition. Indeed, some of them are totally contradictory, such as the bowing in bar 3 of the 2nd movement, which so separated from reality as to actively emphasize the wrong notes. Of course, modern players also play the first movement much slower than a baroque musician would too! There's a lot of Gary Karr in the modern bass interpretation of this piece.

Have fun! this is a very enjoyable piece to learn and play, and a great baroque sonata to learn from.

A
 
the nitty-grittyof trills is more complicated, but yes, this is the main idea. trill from the top unless it's written otherwise (or it sounds really, really bad). Ornamentation is a Pandora's Box, just ask Frederick Neumann.

I, like DFG, also think you should have more of a curve in your fingers here. I think you'll find it takes less mechanical force to "relax into the string" than to push it down with a straight finger.

---
Baroque music's my "thing" and even though this piece is on the whole much more romantic than it is baroque at this point, it's useful to look at it through a baroque lens. Here's my thoughts.

Baroque composers loved to give emphasis to some notes over others. Some quick and dirty things to experiment with:

- if it has a # or b, give it some more weight. Example, the cadential trill in the first and second endings.

- if it's a held dissonance, like a sus 4, or a note that isn't in the chord, give it some weight. Dig in. Tension, to release. example, the E natural in the 5th bar of the second half of the movement.

- Baroque music is made out of "sentence-like" phrases. It's much more like prose than song when it comes to its musical phrasing. Ex. The pickup, and the first bar say one thing, which is then responded to immediately by the second phrase. This is a pretty clear one, which is why this piece is so nice as a teaching tool.

As a final note, if you don't like a bowing then change it. None of the bowings in Zimmerman's edition have anything to do with the bowings in the 1720 edition. Indeed, some of them are totally contradictory, such as the bowing in bar 3 of the 2nd movement, which so separated from reality as to actively emphasize the wrong notes. Of course, modern players also play the first movement much slower than a baroque musician would too! There's a lot of Gary Karr in the modern bass interpretation of this piece.

Have fun! this is a very enjoyable piece to learn and play, and a great baroque sonata to learn from.

A
Thanks so much!
 
Be careful with the evenness of the vibrato. You can work on that by doing one finger scales with metronome at 53~55. Try to hear all 4 oscillations of your vibrato, like you're subdividing sixteenth notes. Also, try to be consistent about where you are using vibrato in the music.

Just some ideas to work on. Sounding really good!
 
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Very nice work, thank you for posting! This piece was one of my quarantine projects. I first encountered it many moons ago at university. Because I was a jazz studies major, I never really polished it or performed in a recital, so I decided to revisit it. I am glad you posted it and look forward with interest to the responses!
 
Here is a cello interpretation of the piece by Susanne Beer that you could use to learn with. Her vibrato, although modern and maybe not what a baroque purist would do, is gorgeous and so musical. Not to mention her trills, dynamics etc.

If I were working on this I would play this YouTube vid with my bass in hand and copy her trills, vibrato and dynamics. Actually everything she does lol. Yep, I would go over and over short sections until I sound like her.

The Eccles sonata exposes technique. A rich vibrato and more dynamics will help you but you have to nail your intonation. You have to get it so good that no one can say ‘work on intonation’.

Something about bass notes make intonation hard to hear for the player. For myself, intonation on violin playing is better than on my bass. There is an intonation $6 app called TE Tuner that is very useful. I first heard about it from David Moore. Play along with TE Tuner and it will show your intonation visually. It’s a tool that can force/teach you to play with better intonation.

 
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Ok, that was fun!
Just added this to my solo pieces. 40 minutes and it’s kinda figured out. The process is started. I may play it on violin later for a second opinion. Record the two and compare what’s what.
Then memorize the notes.

So you have memorized it right?
Some feel the notes should be memorized before you even start making it sound good.
‘Everything starts with the notes’ kind of thinking.

If it’s memorized and in your head you can play along with an app like TE Tuner, and watch where issues are.
Then play without the app. Get it ‘perfect’ then record it. Then listen to that with a critical ear.

193C5FC5-AF1D-41AB-926B-35113E876905.jpeg
 
Ok, that was fun!
Just added this to my solo pieces. 40 minutes and it’s kinda figured out. The process is started. I may play it on violin later for a second opinion. Record the two and compare what’s what.
Then memorize the notes.

So you have memorized it right?
Some feel the notes should be memorized before you even start making it sound good.
‘Everything starts with the notes’ kind of thinking.

If it’s memorized and in your head you can play along with an app like TE Tuner, and watch where issues are.
Then play without the app. Get it ‘perfect’ then record it. Then listen to that with a critical ear.

View attachment 4291488
Yes it's memorized at this point, but sometimes I forget the bowings and fingerings, if not the notes. But yes, memorizing it is a must. I'll record another take soon, it's in much better shape now.
 
We were at the LA Opera last night for the St Matthew Passion - and along with all the fabulous vocal work, I just wanted to mention the incredible bass playing by Principal Nathan Farrington (all those exposed continuo solos!) and Assoc Principal Frances Liu Wu.

Here's Nathan on the Eccles: