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Eden 2-12 XLT bottoming out

#42
Originally posted by harley_ou812
I was on Peaveys website and it says thee that peaveys 4-10 TVX and 1-15 black widow are tuned to 30 hertz each. These should then be able to handle the low B with no problem right?
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According to the specs the 410 has a frequency range from 30Hz to 15kHz - this is not the same as tuning frequency.
Also the specs don't say at how many dB - I doubt it's -3dB at 30Hz.
But those cabs are designed to handle the low B for sure, the question is how well they can handle it...

Matthias
 
#44
Don't fret zoran... the Peaveys will handle your low B with ease. I tried their 2x10 and loved it. I'd have bought it if it had come in an 8 ohm version (and if it was a bit lighter).

Peaveys are some of the most under-rated cabs on the market while Eden's are some of the most over-rated. Having said that I must clarify that I've heard some plenty fine tones from Eden 4x10s but their 12s and 15s are doo-doo. No wonder Munji likes 10s. :D
 
#46
Originally posted by Matthias
But those cabs are designed to handle the low B for sure, the question is how well they can handle it...Matthias
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There is a difference between "handling" the low B, and properly reproducing it.

The cabinet tuning at 30 Hz will provide maximum damping to the cone at low B so there will be very little movement at that frequency. Maximum cone movement will be around 55 Hz which is MUCH easier for the driver to accomodate.

The D410XLT I had on the test bench was tuned at 44 Hz, so I suspect the D212XLT is tuned similarly. For me, this is OK for a 4-string, but not acceptable for a 5-string. YMMV. Without having a D212XLT to test, the tuning frequency is only speculation on my part, but it is reinforced by the reported farting at low B.

As for correctly reproducing low B (30 Hz), that is a different problem. The JBL E155 I'm currently building will handle low B just fine, but it completely sucks at reproducing low B. This driver will be down -16dB at 30 Hz, even though the cab is tuned exactly at 30 Hz. The driver will be fully loaded, but it won't make much noise.

The E155 project is an experiment in trading away low frequency extension to gain a small cabinet (2.5 cubic feet) with a very loud response (100 SPL). The desired result is a loud, compact, and very punchy monitor for use in clubs that have PA support for the missing lows.
 
#48
Originally posted by bgavin
There is a difference between "handling" the low B, and properly reproducing it.
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I'm aware of that. That's why I posted the following lines in another thread:
'[..] you don't *need* a cab able to reproduce 30Hz to hear the low B. If there is not much low end content our ears will add it anyway - of cause you won't feel the bass the same way.
But if you have too much low end this can cause trouble in many situations anyway... '

There are good reasons why most cabs on the market are NOT tuned at 31Hz or below.
Many of those cabs work very well, sound good to their owners and don't need 1000s of Watts to be heard.

I see no sense in making everbody upset who does not know too much about cab tuning by telling him that he needs a cab tuned at 31Hz or below when he plays a 5 string.

Matthias
 
#50
I am not in an argument about fundemental vs first overtone... I am trying to find something that will handle being pushed at high volumes without sounding "farty" with my B string I Seen Mesa Boogie 1-15 that dont look like the ones on the web page. They had black grilles and were in rather small boxes and rated at 400 watts RMS a piece The shop guy said they were the powerhouse series. Would the 2 of these be able to handle the low end I am looking for? Would a peavey 1-15 BVX be better? I tried a bunch of ampeg and SWR cabs and didnt find anything suitable.
 
#51
I use 2 410XLTs, and (ironically) and Ibanez...though I use an MTD Kingston too, so I do have some redeeming features.

I tune to A on my 5 string, and C on my 4 (soon back to BEADG and BEAD), and I've never had a problem with the XLTs giving me any lip. Never flutter, fart, or fail. And they do go way low enough for me. I've yet for anything to go bunk. I also use about 1000 watts, so headroom has never been a problem eiter, as a matter of fact....

I'm completely happy with my XLTs. I might be downsizing soon, and I might not go with Eden, but because I want new, not better.
 
#52
Originally posted by Matthias
There are good reasons why most cabs on the market are NOT tuned at 31Hz or below.
Many of those cabs work very well, sound good to their owners and don't need 1000s of Watts to be heard.

I see no sense in making everbody upset who does not know too much about cab tuning by telling him that he needs a cab tuned at 31Hz or below when he plays a 5 string.
Click to expand...
First, the driver dictates the tuning. It is not an arbitrary value picked at random. There is only one good reason for where a cab is tuned, and that is the requirements of the driver. Anything else is a mismatch. BTW, the optimum tuning for most of the Eminence 15" drivers is 36 ~ 41 Hz. The Delta 10" used in the Avatar 4x10 boxes is optimally tuned at 66 Hz. The JBL E155 is optimally tuned at 30 Hz, and the E140 at 32 Hz.

Second, the original question of this thread is about bottoming out a D212XLT with a 5-string bass. Sounding good to their owners is not part of the original question.

Answering the question, the D212XLT is most likely tuned far higher than 30 Hz, probably at 44 Hz like the D410XLT. The physics of vented boxes unloads the drivers very rapidly below the tuning frequency and this makes them extremely susceptible to bottoming. The higher the tuning frequency above 30 Hz, the more the drivers are unloaded at 30 Hz, and the more likely they will bottom under modest power.

If a player elects to operate below the tuning frequency of his cabinet, he is exposing his rig to physical damage by bottoming out under power. Understanding the limitations of my equipment makes perfectly good sense to me.
 
#53
I've moved on from Eden, and I still have my old 4/10XLT & 2/10 XLT......but before I changed cabs I had close to a thousand gigs on my Edens....all with a five string........my taste has changed, but I'll never talk bad about Eden......I think they make excellent cabs that can really take it!
 
#55
I just got back from the music store and i am going to ge the Mesa powerhouse 15's. They sounded awesome handle the lows with no problem they are tight and articulate. they are a bit lacking in the highs but they are 15s and i have my genz benz for with them. SO iI will Have 2 mesa 15s and 2 genz 10s :)
 
#56
I just got an Eden 210XST and I have to say it kicks major butt.

Im using this with my Nemesis(By Eden) 2-10 combo, and I honestly couldnt be happier.

Its got all the punch and bottom I could ask for. My B string has never sounded so good.

I used it at my first gig with my new band the day I got it and got countless complimets. It was a school dance which had somewhere near 3000 people in attendance and was held in 3 "rooms" (Gym, Caferteria, and out door area)

Most the complimets were mostly the DJ's and crew of the other rooms of the function telling me that they could hear my bass from their rooms even when they were blasting their music.

Ive tried most the major brands, and quite frankly, Eden is the only manufacturer who's 10's I will use. Ampeg, Mesa Boogie, SWR Trace Elliot, Peavey, and Ashdown all fall short to Eden IMO.

Different strokes for different folks?
Maybe...

Peace
Nick
 
#57
Originally posted by zoran
For me, its not funny at all, cause i have ordered this cab without hearing it, thought that it can handle at least low E string, so is there anybody who have some good opinion about this cab (I mean eden 212 xlt)
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I wouldn't worry, bro. Most music stores have a return policy that lets you check something out and return it if you don't like it. Better look into it to see how their's works specifically because sometimes it's as little as 48 hour period.

brad cook
 

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