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Eden 210 XST vs. Acme B2

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by amorosomolto, Jan 26, 2004.


  1. Acme B2

    12 vote(s)
    57.1%
  2. Eden 210 XST

    9 vote(s)
    42.9%
  3. Other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Niether!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. amorosomolto

    amorosomolto

    Sep 10, 2003
    Texas
    Hello All!

    Acme B2 Vs. Eden D210XST

    Any experience welcome here. I cannot figure out which cab to buy. I'm leaning more towards the Acme B2. I want to feed at least 700+ watts to the cab.

    Thank you!
     
  2. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    Help us out - what sound do you want?

    Alex

    P.S. I love my Acmes but that's because they sound like I want them to.
     
  3. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    do a search, cause we had a thread exactly like this.

    course for me, cant imagine anything cooler than my Acmes. :bassist:
     
  4. amorosomolto

    amorosomolto

    Sep 10, 2003
    Texas
    Sorry for the similar thread. I am one of the most INDECISIVE people when it comes to gear.

    Well, I know I LOVE the Acmes, you can EQ in almost any sound you want. I just have some volume problems with my band.

    I keep telling myself that the Acmes are what I want, but then I know that the Eden's will be louder with less power.

    The sound I'm trying to acheive is a somewhat boomy yet grind-age type sound, if that makes sense. I have a six string and like the low tuned cabinets for the low B. I want to remain completely versatile.

    I have a B4 right now, which I will keep, and I was thinking about adding two B2's or something similar. I wanted to give the B2's around 900 watts each and then around 1000 to the B4 (8 ohm). I would use ALL the Speakers for loud playing and the two 210's for regular practice.

    The B2's or 210XST's would have the PLX 3002.

    With the PLX 3002 and the GK 2000RB, I am concerned about blowing out the outlet in the wall!!

    Can someone post a link to the similar thread please?

    Thank You!!!
    Mike
     
  5. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    woah!??!?!?

    that's a TON of low end, there!

    but i'd just go with another Acme. you'll have a better balance in sound, and just sound BIGGER.

    tho i'm sure the Eden sounds killer, it might introduce a little something extra that might be good, or can be bad, and could make it hard to balance in the EQ and find the tone you like.

    or heck, you could just as easily go the opposite way, and add an Eden 2x10 XLT to your setup. it'll give you lots of the grindy, edgy, aggro tone.

    with a crossover, send all of the lower frequencies to the Acme, and send the mid/higher ones to the XLT. BIIIG boom, and edge to match.

    couple of thoughts for ya.
     
  6. amorosomolto

    amorosomolto

    Sep 10, 2003
    Texas
    LOL, it is a bit much right?


    Mike


    :bassist:
     
  7. rockindoc

    rockindoc Daily Lama

    Jan 26, 2002
    Bonham, Tx
    If I'm understanding you correctly, your B4 isn't loud enough, so you're wanting to add another one or two cabs?

    I think Joker's suggestion is on the right track (with the 210XLT, using a crossover). As far as I know, no one here has tried pairing a B4 with another maker's 210. The closest I've come is using a pair of B2s with an EA VL210 and I can tell you, this setup slaughters! But I'm not the strappin' young fella I used to be and I don't want to carry 180 lbs worth of cabinets.

    You could be a real cabinet pioneer here and find the perfect 210 to put a B4 under. Lots of folks like the 210/115 arrangement. The B4 is your massive 115, so all you need is the right 210 for it. Something with more mids and highs, maybe?
     
  8. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    seriously!

    if you went with the dual B2 / B4 setup, i wouldnt be surprised if you get constantly blasted offstage, every time you hit a low B. :D either that or suffer an enema every other gig. :eek:
     
  9. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    I'd stick with an all Acme rig because you'll find it easier to get a consistent tone regardless of the venue (i.e. your rig will sound the same whether you use one B2 or two B2s and a B4). If you make up some cunning cabling (well, if cables are ever that cunning!) you could get a pair of 4 ohm B2s. For small gigs drive one B2 of a single channel of the PLX 3002, for larger gigs drive one off each channel (in both cases each B2 would get 900W) or drive the B4 bridged (giving it 1800W), and for the largest gigs connect the pair of B2s in series (total impedance now 8 ohms) connected in parallel to the 8 ohm B4, and bridge the amp into the total impedance of 4 ohms, giving you 3000W spread equally between all eight 10" speakers.

    And you can leave the GK at home (or send it to a new one) if you do that.

    Alex
     
  10. amorosomolto

    amorosomolto

    Sep 10, 2003
    Texas
    Holy Cow!

    Ok, connecting the B2's in series. I dont know how to do that. Can one do that?

    Does that mean to connect one B2 to ONE channel of the amp, then connect the second B2 to the BACK of the B2 that is connected to the amp?

    Then I could connect the B4 to the OTHER channel of the amp, Right?

    THEN, it would be a matter of just flipping the bridge switch in the back of the amp, correct? Can the PLX3002 drive two channels under bridge mode?

    If this works, it would be insane! I did not know that you could do that with Acmes and power amps! This could end up saving me some money.

    Thank you all!!

    Mike
     
  11. amorosomolto

    amorosomolto

    Sep 10, 2003
    Texas
    Forgot to mention the cable aspect....

    What was described in my previous thread can all be done with three Speakon to Speakon cables correct?

    Thanks, Mike
     
  12. Richard Lindsey

    Richard Lindsey

    Mar 25, 2000
    Metro NYC
    No! Simple daisy-chaining is not a series connection. That's still a parallel connection, and it would drop the impedance of two 4 ohm cabs to 2 ohms, or that of two 8 ohm cabs to 4 ohms.

    To get a series connection with two cabs not designed to be used that way, you need to do a bit of wiring. if you search around here, I think someone has described it.

    EDIT: But now that I think of it, if you use Speakon cables (I missed that when I read your post first), it probably wouldn't be too hard a rewire.

    Oh yeah, and you can't drive two channels when bridging. The whole point of bridging is that you're yoking two channels together to make one big channel. You can't use your regular speaker outputs; you have to use the dedicated bridged outputs.
     
  13. I have to say that I love my Eden 210XST. When performing at a small venue I use this cabinet with my Eden Traveler head. In larger venues I stack it under my Eden Metro and plug directly into the PA. In my opinion, any of these combinations will give you more that enough bottom to get you through any type of gig! As far as the ACME cabinets are concerned, I've heard a lot of great things about them but I've never played through one....
     
  14. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    I'd take a speakon-speakon lead from the bridged output of the PLX (wired for normal bridging) to the B4's speakon input. Without connecting the B2s that would mean you'd have the amp driving the B4 with about 2000W bridged into 8 ohms.

    Then run a single banana-banana lead (remember the speakon lead has two conductors inside, one +, one -, so it's two lead in one) from the red (+) banana jack on the B4 to the red banana jack on the first B2. Next, run another banana-banana lead from the black (-) banana jack on the first B2 to the red banana jack on the second B2. Finally with a third banana-banana lead, connect the black banana jack on the second B2 to the black banana jack on the B4.

    Tada! Two B2 in series, connected in parallel with the B4, all driven by a single speakon from a bridged amp. 3000W of fun and games from a PLX 3002!!!

    Alex
     
  15. I ran a B4 (series 1) with an D210XLT. It was pretty sweet. I ran both full range and it was much like a bi-amped set-up in that the B4 naturally had more bass/less top then the 210XLT. Ultimately, as suggested I got tired of lugging that much weight and oppted for the 210. I'm not that big of a fan of the Acme cabs alone.
     
  16. amorosomolto

    amorosomolto

    Sep 10, 2003
    Texas
    This sounds dangerous!!

    Worth a try though. Can someone make this speaker setup for me? Do those procable and sound.com guys do this?

    I wish it was more simple.
     
  17. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    But it's not.

    It's not that complicated - one speakon-speakon lead and three banana-banana leads is all you need.

    If you plug the banana leads into the wrong jacks all that will happen is you'll end up with one or more of the cabs out of phase - that'll be pretty obvious because you'll be wondering where all your lows have gone! Just remember that neither of the B2s should have a pair of leads connecting them to the B4, just one from each to the B4 and a lone lead connecting the two B2s.

    Then stand back and prepare to hear/feel one of the bassiest (and loudest) rigs imaginable!

    Alex
     
  18. amorosomolto

    amorosomolto

    Sep 10, 2003
    Texas
    Nice!

    Well, Its worth a try. Your ideas will save me alot of money!

    By the way Alex, if I wanted to do this with only ONE B4 and ONE B2, then I could Take the RED (+) lead from the B4 to the RED (+) lead on the B2, and then the BLACK (-) from the B2 to the BLACK (-) on the B4. This would work also correct?
    Thanks Alex!



    Mike
     
  19. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    It would work but it would mean the B4 and B4 would be connected in parallel. There's two problems with this (assuming the B4 is 8 ohms and the B2 4 ohms):

    1. The total impedance will be 2.66 ohms, too low for the power amp to drive bridged.

    2. The B2 would be getting twice the power of the B4, so each speaker in the B2 would be seeing 4 times the power of those in the B4 - not good!

    However, going from 2x10" to 4x10" is a useful difference, going from 4x10" to 8x10" likewise. But going from 4x10" to 6x10" isn't a significant change IMO in total output. And if you're already bringing a B4 and a B2, why not bring another B2?!!

    You could connect the B2 and B4 in series if you're determined to have a 6x10" setup - that way the speakers would all see equal power, probably about 1400W RMS. Finally, the B4 could have one channel and the B2 the other, 550W into the B4, 900W into the B2.

    Alex

    P.S. Please wear earplugs!!!
     
  20. bigbajo60

    bigbajo60

    Nov 7, 2003
    Laredo, Texas
    Listen here...

    I'm the original owner of the B4 that Mike/amorosomolto owns.

    It's a sweet cab, but it's just like all Acme's in that it's not the most "aggresive" cab in the top end. That can keep one from "hearing" it when it's blasting away at the back of one's legs! This however does not mean that the audience isn't getting all the sound! I originally had to sell that cabinet because other band members said it was way too much volume for anyone else to compete with... and that was with my GK rb2000 (also now owned by Mike/amorosomolto) set at "2"!

    I think that if Mike goes with another B4 and creates a traditional stack, he'll be happy with being able to both "hear" the mid and tweet from the top cabinet, and "feel" all eight ten's turning his guts to Jello!

    And as we all know, "There's always room for Jello!;)

    Mike, if I'd been able to hang on to the rig, that's what I'd eventually have done. Of course, then there's the problem of finding a venue to play where you wouldn't be shaking things off of shelves and blowing window panes out of their frames!:D