Eden 210xst/wt550 troubleshooting

[Thumpin6string]

I have the same head. It is an extremely loud 550 watts. There is no bridge mode on the WT550. If you are getting low output and some distortion, the first thing I would do is put a patch cable between the effects send and return jacks. If it fixes it, you just have dirty jacks. This is pretty common problem on a lot of amps. As posted above, you can check the cab by plugging another head into it. Same thing with the amp head. Try it in another cabinet. Good luck, the Eden is a great amp. Also, it handles the low B with no problem.

 

[HolmeBass]

Are you sure you amp even operates in bridge mode?

It doesn’t, the Wt-800 had dual power amps, the WT-550/Metro have a single power amp (same power section in those two models, although it did evolve slightly so the year it was built makes a difference).

I have run my Metro at 2 ohms, no sweat. The fan kicks on immediately but it works very well. Maybe a little spongy/under-damped, but for dub that is fine. I gigged w/ the Metro at 2.67 ohms for more than 5 years, running it on top of a 4 ohm Genz Benz Uber 212T.

BUT, there is no way, not even an XLT, 210 is going to work for dub with a low B. You are going to need more drivers and more cabinet internal volume.

 

[BaileyMan]

@PixelWes, did you check the phase of the speakers?

 

[Rip Van Dan]

I have the same head. It is an extremely loud 550 watts. There is no bridge mode on the WT550. If you are getting low output and some distortion, the first thing I would do is put a patch cable between the effects send and return jacks. If it fixes it, you just have dirty jacks. This is pretty common problem on a lot of amps. As posted above, you can check the cab by plugging another head into it. Same thing with the amp head. Try it in another cabinet. Good luck, the Eden is a great amp. Also, it handles the low B with no problem.

@Thumpin6string makes a very good point I forgot about. You may very well get low sound output if you haven't cleaned the jacks in a while. Corrosion will built up on the jack's contact points, especially the jacks you don't use. It's worse on the jacks you don't use because there's no plug moving in and out to knock any of the corrosion off. AND, the signal path on that amp and most Eden amps runs through all of those jacks on the back of the amp.

You generally want to clean them once a year with some DeOxit5 (red label). Set the nozzle on L for light and spray a little bit in the jack and then quite a bit more on the tip and barrel of a 1/4" plug. Then move the plug in and out of each jack 10 to 15 times. Do the ones in the front of the amp too. You'd be amazed how many problems this clears up. Clean these up on an annual basis and you'll avoid a myriad of intermittent and perplexing problems.

By the way, note that we are talking about "Eden amps" here. Don't go spraying DeOxit into the jacks of other amps without checking with the manufacturer first. Spraying on the barrel of a 1/4" plug should be fine for most or all amps, but spraying into a jack that has a circuit board close to it might cause some problems depending on the board. I know that @agedhorse does NOT want you spraying DeOxit into his Mesa amps. So check with your manufacturer for recommended cleaning practices. For Eden and DNA, the above practice is recommended by the designer of those amps.

 

[PixelWes]

Sorry I didn't have a chance to pull the grill off today, had to work late and the cab is still in my Jeep. I'll do that whenever I wake up. I can clear up a few things:

1) I have the WT550, not the WT500. I guess bridge is the wrong term, I mean run two 4ohm cabs with it. Sorry, I've always just had combo amps.

2) The first thing I did when the cab arrived was rip the grill off, identify damage, and learn how to do an excursion test via YouTube There was a tiny cluster of puncture holes in the ribbing around one speaker (which I've had sealed). I paid $400USD for the cab and got $300 refunded (the cost of a new driver from Eden if needed). Aside from the holes in the ribbing they appear fine, I've paid to have it checked out twice now.

3) I read through a lot of Eden threads before this purchase and I did start with all settings flat before I tinkered with it. This is a much more detailed guide though (and I didn't know I could pull the knob out to turn compressor off), I will definitely hook her up tomorrow and run through all that. The pots were really dirty but they've been cleaned. I did find a specific setting on the High knob that made a constant high pitched squeal that was pretty scary, but the repair guy says the cleaning should fix that. I thought it could be a tube thing lol.

4) I've played reggae/dub through a Peavey 115 combo (300W, my gig amp for the last decade) and a Fender 210 Rumble combo (200? 250? the local open mic rig). I've seen arguments for 15s and for 10s. Can we agree a WT550+D210XST should be louder than the Fender 210 combo, apples to apples? Cause that's all I'm really saying here. Maybe this isn't the ideal setup for a monster dub show but it should be louder than the cheap starter amps I was replacing. My plan has always been to stack two XSTs or go XLT/XST for a total of four 10's without breaking my back.

5) I know about the burned out tweeter pad issue. Mine is definitely locked up from being left completely off, I was reading up on this. I read that this isn't a big deal though. Do you think it could be sapping power somehow? I never noticed it lighting up until I had it worked on.

I've attached a photo of the back of the head, it's pretty well rubbed off but I think it says 2-5-08.

 

[agedhorse]

Excursion test? YouTube? Holes in surround? Locked up tweeter control? Dirty (or otherwise defective) pots?

Starting to sound like maybe you bought something other than what you received.

 

[PixelWes]

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Like I said, I got 75% of the price refunded for the holes in the surround (cost of a new driver because Eden isn't making recone kits or something like that). Two techs have looked at it and said those holes are too small to cause significant issue and they've been sealed. I wouldn't use the tweeter anyway so I'm fairly happy to pay $100 for an Eden D210XST with cosmetic issues and a busted horn control (which is apparently cheap and easy to fix anyway) - if those are indeed the only problems. Maybe the seller misrepresented the condition some, but if they've refunded me $300 and I don't need a replacement driver...how mad can I be?

I had a fairly short window to box it up and return it if needed. I knew the drivers were the important/expensive part, so I went on youtube and got the same advice being offered here: "spread your hand out wide and place your finger tips around the cone (not on the dust cover) and gently push it in and let it back out. The cone should move back and forth smoothly and easily. If it feels or sounds scratchy, then the voice coil is damaged and you'll need to replace the speaker or have it re-coned". There was no issue. I sent photos of the holes to the seller, emailed Eden about a recone kit, and we worked out the partial refund.

I paid $500 for the head and I thought dirty pots should be expected on something that old. Reverb.com is user-to-user so it's not like everyone is going to tear down and clean before selling. I'm out $600 total so I don't expect everything to be like new. Maybe I got fleeced, idk. I'm about to throw this thing in the dumpster and have my Peavey 115 shipped up to Canada.

 

[PixelWes]

Here are the photos. I included a close up of the grouping of 4 pin holes in the surround, as well as the sloppy looking re-glue of the dust cover. Neither repair did much. The recent guy I took it to is an authorized service center for Fender, Peavey, Roland, Marshall, Vox, Mackie, Behringer, and Yamaha. I hope he did a competent job cause he seems to be the only guy in town that works on amps (I'm new to the area, Lethbridge, AB). I wish I could just throw a few hundred at this and get it working the way I expect, but he's at a loss and is just telling me to turn it down.

I don't know what to tell my bandmates. I've been using their old bassist's SWR combo while this thing is in and out of the shop. If he comes to collect his amp I'm dead in the water. That's why I'm willing to just buy the second cab new, so I know it's working in top form, but I want to rule the head out first.

 

[agedhorse]

So, as I suspected it LOOKS like both drivers are in fact damaged from over excursion. It’s not 100% reliable from the pictures, but the telltale damage at the cone margins looks like it is there. The holes aren’t the issue.
Also, that dust cap replacement job is abysmal and hints at other issues that are visible to a qualified, experienced service tech.

Like I said before, it looks like you bought something that is different (condition) from what you expected. I don’t think you got the deal that you think you got.

 

[Wasnex]

Here are the photos. I included a close up of the grouping of 4 pin holes in the surround, as well as the sloppy looking re-glue of the dust cover. Neither repair did much. The recent guy I took it to is an authorized service center for Fender, Peavey, Roland, Marshall, Vox, Mackie, Behringer, and Yamaha. I hope he did a competent job cause he seems to be the only guy in town that works on amps (I'm new to the area, Lethbridge, AB). I wish I could just throw a few hundred at this and get it working the way I expect, but he's at a loss and is just telling me to turn it down.

I don't know what to tell my bandmates. I've been using their old bassist's SWR combo while this thing is in and out of the shop. If he comes to collect his amp I'm dead in the water. That's why I'm willing to just buy the second cab new, so I know it's working in top form, but I want to rule the head out first.

If the drivers are no longer matched, the power handling will be limited. Essentially at a certain point the more powerful driver will dominate the weaker driver, which will cause major problems leading to the destruction of both divers. This will also reduce low frequency output potential.

It looks like one of the drivers may have already been replaced. It's possible the remaining old driver was damaged or is no longer in spec. When you buy only one new driver, there is no guarantee it will work properly with the old thrashed driver. Then it can be easy to damage the new driver as well. Optimally if you have one driver go bad, it's probably best to replace both unless you have a means of measuring the remaining driver's TS parameters to make sure they are reasonably close to spec.


Unfortunately replacement drivers for this cab are pretty pricey so it may not make sense buy new drivers: Invalid Link Removed

If it were not for COVID I would recommend you do whatever you have to do to confirm the health of the head. For example you could borrow a speaker or take the amp to a music store and try out speakers.

 

[PixelWes]

@agedhorse: Ok, so my takeaway is that even though the drivers pass a generic excursion test they are still likely toast. What exactly are you seeing, so I know to look out for it in the future? How would you explain it to a certified repair guy telling you the driver is fine? Telling me I got F'd isn't helpful, I'm long outside of the return policy.

@Wasnex: What makes you think one was replaced? The guy sprayed some kind of sealer on one side after working on it so that's why it's a little darker in spots. That's good info about swapping both at once, makes sense to me. I agree it does seem crazy to throw $600 in new drivers at this old $100 box, but at the same time...a new one is like $1600CAD. But do I even trust this guy to install them? I may take my head back to him just to have him test it on some other cabs with me, he is trying to source the new cab for me and get me a good price (we'll see).

Seems like this guy isn't very knowledgeable despite his certifications, which is sad because every musician in town recommends him to me. He also set up my sitar. How can I find an Eden-certified tech near me, or do they exist as such?

 

[Wasnex]

@Wasnex: What makes you think one was replaced? The guy sprayed some kind of sealer on one side after working on it so that's why it's a little darker in spots. That's good info about swapping both at once, makes sense to me. I agree it does seem crazy to throw $600 in new drivers at this old $100 box, but at the same time...a new one is like $1600CAD. But do I even trust this guy to install them? I may take my head back to him just to have him test it on some other cabs with me, he is trying to source the new cab for me and get me a good price (we'll see).

Based on what I see, one cone looks faded and beat up and the other does not. But it's just a guess, and I have no way of knowing for sure. Also if both cones are creased as Agedhorse said, I don't think it really matters.

Not sure why you would pay someone else to install drivers if you decide to buy replacements. That will just add unnecessary expense to the repair cost. If the tweeter, crossover, and L-Pad are also fried...will you replace these as well .

Pretty sure the cab is wired with spade connectors so you should be able to handle it.

Just pay attention to which wires are connected to the positive and negative terminals of each speaker. I suggest drawing a little diagram before disconnecting the wires. Typically the wires and/or connectors are color coded. Do a 9V battery check after the connections are made to double check the polarity.[/user][/QUOTE]

 

[grouse789]

@agedhorse:

Seems like this guy isn't very knowledgeable despite his certifications, which is sad because every musician in town recommends him to me. He also set up my sitar. How can I find an Eden-certified tech near me, or do they exist as such?

Ive got to speak up. Despite your enthusiasm to Eden amps, their hay day was 23-25 years ago. They arent the same company from MN. Meaning, your tech, or many techs for that matter wont be very familiar with Eden.
Edens were the players player of amps. The rare italian sports car amid a sea of camrys for a small window of time.
Whatcha might want to do is plug the head into the cabinet of the SWR combo, or any cabinet for that matter. Vice versa for the eden cab. Plug that into the SWR combo, probably has an extension speaker out.

 

[agedhorse]

@agedhorse: Ok, so my takeaway is that even though the drivers pass a generic excursion test they are still likely toast. What exactly are you seeing, so I know to look out for it in the future? How would you explain it to a certified repair guy telling you the driver is fine? Telling me I got F'd isn't helpful, I'm long outside of the return policy.

Seems like this guy isn't very knowledgeable despite his certifications, which is sad because every musician in town recommends him to me. He also set up my sitar. How can I find an Eden-certified tech near me, or do they exist as such?

The "generic" excursion test is pretty useless (regardless of the praise it receives on the internet) because it can only confirm an obvious problem but it will not show up a host of other problems that are more related to your symptoms.

At the edge of the cone, the photos show that there is a light crease (discontinuity) where the pulped paper cone joins with the surround (just inside this point). This is caused by too much power (beyond the mechanical power handling of the speaker). It's fairly common with that cone edge profile which is why I asked for the pictures. This will completely invalidate the way the drivers and the cabinet interact and cause your symptoms.

Regarding getting f'ed, all I was telling you was that while you THOUGHT you got a good deal even with the refund for the driver, what you really have is a plywood bass enclosure that needs some new parts. At this point, your best bet (IMO) is to either spring for the correct replacement drivers, or calculate the internal volume of the box and the porting so that replacement drivers that are suitable for the box can be chosen. At this point however, it would no longer be an Eden speaker since the major components have been replaced with different parts.

I see this sort of thing happen all the time, it's no fun being on the receiving end for sure.

 

[12bass]

For deeeeeeeeeeep dub tones at volume, one D-210XST is probably not going to cut it. Two might work, and I'd forget about the D-210XLT cabs as they don't handle low-B fundamentals well very at high volume (leading to woofer damage). Frankly, I think something like a fEARful 1515/66 might be required to get it done properly without woofer overexcursion (or perhaps a 15/6 plus 15 sub). Two 3015LFs will far outperform the Eden cabinets on those deep fundamentals.

 

[S-Bigbottom]

Sorry, the person you bought this gear from sold you abused/broken gear.

While Eden has a great reputation on old amps lasting, those amps are know to be great, but also know to be garbage at a point in Eden's history. Though some still survive, a lot are in the trash.

I was also one that bought Edens that went multiple times to the shop, then eventually gave up on (WT800, WT550). With poor support from Eden and many failures, some Techs will not touch that era of them.

In regards to the speakers, many thought, "These are top of the line so they can take a lot of bass.", and them amps can put out a lot of lows. So much that the cones were being creased by players over zealously pushing too much lows.
Resulting in what you currently have.

Never buy an Eden cab if the speakers are not completely smooth and new looking. Even the tiniest wrinkle in the paper is a sign of a big problem.

 

[Wasnex]

Sorry, the person you bought this gear from sold you abused/broken gear.

While Eden has a great reputation on old amps lasting, those amps are know to be great, but also know to be garbage at a point in Eden's history. Though some still survive, a lot are in the trash.

I was also one that bought Edens that went multiple times to the shop, then eventually gave up on (WT800, WT550). With poor support from Eden and many failures, some Techs will not touch that era of them.

In regards to the speakers, many thought, "These are top of the line so they can take a lot of bass.", and them amps can put out a lot of lows. So much that the cones were being creased by players over zealously pushing too much lows.
Resulting in what you currently have.

Never buy an Eden cab if the speakers are not completely smooth and new looking. Even the tiniest wrinkle in the paper is a sign of a big problem.

I had a similar experience.

I played my organizations WT800A for about year. The previous custodian of the amp had it repaired at least two times. When it went down on me, I decided to get a different amp. I didn't consider it a huge loss as I always struggled to dial in the highs to sound sweet. This was a combination of the amp's and the speaker's voicing.

Also, I did not think the rig was particularly loud. I was running an 8 ohm D410XLT and an 8 ohm D210XLT so I was leaving some some of the amps power on the table. The rig met my volume needs, but did not seem to have a lot of girth or headroom.

I did have the opportunity to play a WT800 with a pair of 4 ohm D410XLTs on a big fest stage one time, and it was a lot more impressive. It's possible my amp was just never repaired properly.

Although I felt the Eden tweeters were a bit too harsh and grainy sounding for my taste, I used the cabs for the rest of my playing career.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Sorry I didn't have a chance to pull the grill off today, had to work late and the cab is still in my Jeep. I'll do that whenever I wake up. I can clear up a few things:

1) I have the WT550, not the WT500. I guess bridge is the wrong term, I mean run two 4ohm cabs with it. Sorry, I've always just had combo amps.

2) The first thing I did when the cab arrived was rip the grill off, identify damage, and learn how to do an excursion test via YouTube There was a tiny cluster of puncture holes in the ribbing around one speaker (which I've had sealed). I paid $400USD for the cab and got $300 refunded (the cost of a new driver from Eden if needed). Aside from the holes in the ribbing they appear fine, I've paid to have it checked out twice now.

3) I read through a lot of Eden threads before this purchase and I did start with all settings flat before I tinkered with it. This is a much more detailed guide though (and I didn't know I could pull the knob out to turn compressor off), I will definitely hook her up tomorrow and run through all that. The pots were really dirty but they've been cleaned. I did find a specific setting on the High knob that made a constant high pitched squeal that was pretty scary, but the repair guy says the cleaning should fix that. I thought it could be a tube thing lol.

4) I've played reggae/dub through a Peavey 115 combo (300W, my gig amp for the last decade) and a Fender 210 Rumble combo (200? 250? the local open mic rig). I've seen arguments for 15s and for 10s. Can we agree a WT550+D210XST should be louder than the Fender 210 combo, apples to apples? Cause that's all I'm really saying here. Maybe this isn't the ideal setup for a monster dub show but it should be louder than the cheap starter amps I was replacing. My plan has always been to stack two XSTs or go XLT/XST for a total of four 10's without breaking my back.

5) I know about the burned out tweeter pad issue. Mine is definitely locked up from being left completely off, I was reading up on this. I read that this isn't a big deal though. Do you think it could be sapping power somehow? I never noticed it lighting up until I had it worked on.

I've attached a photo of the back of the head, it's pretty well rubbed off but I think it says 2-5-08.

On the back of that amp I can make out WT550B and the 2-5-08 (February 5, 2008) date of manufacture on it. That "B" is the model with 750-watts into 2 ohms. The B version came out in 2005, the first WT550 appears in the catalog in 2003.

Regarding the L-pad (tweeter adjustment) it's not expensive to replace it but it is a pain to have to do it. You also have to be sure you wire it up correctly. If I recall correctly that tweeter is wired opposite of the woofers specifically to be out of phase with them because it is so much faster than the woofers that in practice that makes its sound in phase? If @Bassmann1968 would pop in here, he could tell you exactly why. Or you could PM him. I just remember spotting that weird wiring once and being told that was how it was supposed to be. To bad Marshall closed the Eden Forum. There was a nice wiring diagram on it for the L-pad and also for wiring their various cabs.

Mixing the XLT and XST cabs always sounds good. You just have to remember to not push your cab beyond what the XLT speakers will handle because that XST will handle quite a bit more than the XLT. But that combination always sounds good. In fact, before David left Eden they changed their D810XLT cab to include 4 XST speakers and 4 XLT speakers instead of 8 XLT speakers because it sounded so good. And they renamed it the D810XT forgoing either the L or the S in between the X and T because it used both.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

@agedhorse: Ok, so my takeaway is that even though the drivers pass a generic excursion test they are still likely toast. What exactly are you seeing, so I know to look out for it in the future? How would you explain it to a certified repair guy telling you the driver is fine? Telling me I got F'd isn't helpful, I'm long outside of the return policy.

@Wasnex: What makes you think one was replaced? The guy sprayed some kind of sealer on one side after working on it so that's why it's a little darker in spots. That's good info about swapping both at once, makes sense to me. I agree it does seem crazy to throw $600 in new drivers at this old $100 box, but at the same time...a new one is like $1600CAD. But do I even trust this guy to install them? I may take my head back to him just to have him test it on some other cabs with me, he is trying to source the new cab for me and get me a good price (we'll see).

Seems like this guy isn't very knowledgeable despite his certifications, which is sad because every musician in town recommends him to me. He also set up my sitar. How can I find an Eden-certified tech near me, or do they exist as such?

Use this link for Eden Authorized Repair Techs - "https://edenamps.net/sales-support.html" It will bring up a map of the world and you just click on your country. If you click on North America then you can select Canada, US, Costa Rica, El Salvador, or Mexico and it will give you specifics. I have to warn you this is the info off the old Eden site. The Marshall/Eden site doesn't have a "support" section on it for Eden. So the info may be old. Good news is that this section gives you a phone number and e-mail link you can use to get the most up to date info for your location.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Based on what I see, one cone looks faded and beat up and the other does not. But it's just a guess, and I have no way of knowing for sure. Also if both cones are creased as Agedhorse said, I don't think it really matters.

Not sure why you would pay someone else to install drivers if you decide to buy replacements. That will just add unnecessary expense to the repair cost. If the tweeter, crossover, and L-Pad are also fried...will you replace these as well .

Pretty sure the cab is wired with spade connectors so you should be able to handle it.
View attachment 3999118

Just pay attention to which wires are connected to the positive and negative terminals of each speaker. I suggest drawing a little diagram before disconnecting the wires. Typically the wires and/or connectors are color coded. Do a 9V battery check after the connections are made to double check the polarity.[/user]

[/QUOTE]
Speaking of replacing the speakers and not getting the wires mixed up, a thing I used to do when my brother and I had an automotive tune-up shop was always keep a roll of masking tape handy. Tear off a 2" to 3" piece, cradle the wire in the middle of it and push the ends of tape together. Then write on those tabs which Speaker it is and what terminal it is "#1 +" and "#1 -". And even though you don't think you could possibly forget which was speaker one and which was speaker two, put a piece of tape marking them 1 and 2 on the speakers and speaker holes.

***And finally take a very clear and close photo of the wires as they are mounted before you pull them off the speakers.