Eden Navigator - voltage

[DrumsAndBass]

I use my Navigator with a Crest ProLite 2.0 , Fdeck hpf-pre series 3 and a fEARful 1515/66.
I hear a nasty distortion on fretted notes on the E and A strings - especially when I lean into it. I do not boost much on the Nav at all.
The G&L bass is high output. This horrible sound is worsening.
Why ?
Should I switch the switch on the inside - for output ? Is that what it does ?
I cannot get the clip light to go on on the Nav and the Master Volume does not need to be past 9:00. Yet I can feeI and hear that the Nav slams the power amp with a heck of a strong signal.
I use an all clean and clear roots reggae tone. Now, I have clocked in about 7 - 2 hour gigs at a strong volume - and I mean strong. The tone of the Nav is otherworldly and pretty much perfect.
But this evil distortion sound is new and has me playing on egg shells.
The power amp is a happy monster as is the cab.
Am I driving the cab to ruin ? I took some photos of a switch on the inside. Is that it at the pencil tip ?

Thanks.

​

 

[31HZ]

I'd start by changing that 12AX7 tube.

Edited to add: I've never heard of one wearing out, but you have the lid open, it's RIGHT THERE, and a fading tube could exhibit the symptoms you describe.

Also, the WT amps would occasionally have similar problems caused by dirty plug jacks on the rear. I don't know if the Nav is prone to similar problems, but a lint-free swab, moistened with a dot of alcohol/cleaner, for gentle cleaning of the jacks wouldn't hurt either.

 

[agedhorse]

if that doesn't work, I recommend finding an experienced, qualified tech to evaluate your rig to first confirm that the problem is actually with the preamp…

Have you tried a different bass? Speaker cabinet?

 

[Jeff Scott]

Should I switch the switch on the inside - for output ? Is that what it does ?

​

Why do you think that switch will help things? Do you actually know what it is for?

 

[eniac]

I would first rule out problems with the 3 effects return jacks and the comp sidechain return jack. Using an instrument cable or patch cable, connect Send to Return, one jack pair at a time. So, you will do 4 tests total -- 3 effects loops and 1 sidechain loop. If/when the problem disappears, the return jack of that pair probably has dirty/oxidized contacts.

You can choose either to run the preamp with the pair always connected, or you can try inserting and removing the plug for the return jack a few dozen times and hope that the return jack's shorting contacts mate and un-mate enough times to knock away any corrosion.

Granted, it's a long shot, but it's a risk-free and cost-free experiment that shouldn't take more than 5 minutes.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I would first rule out problems with the 3 effects return jacks and the comp sidechain return jack. Using an instrument cable or patch cable, connect Send to Return, one jack pair at a time. So, you will do 4 tests total -- 3 effects loops and 1 sidechain loop. If/when the problem disappears, the return jack of that pair probably has dirty/oxidized contacts.

You can choose either to run the preamp with the pair always connected, or you can try inserting and removing the plug for the return jack a few dozen times and hope that the return jack's shorting contacts mate and un-mate enough times to knock away any corrosion.

Granted, it's a long shot, but it's a risk-free and cost-free experiment that shouldn't take more than 5 minutes.

I think Agedhorse has the best ideas on how to resolve your issue. Saving that, I can add there are a lot of jacks on a NAVI and I would make sure there is good contact in all of them.

 

[silky smoove]

Before looking at the amp, you should confirm the upstream end of the signal chain. Is the battery in your G&L still fresh enough to not distort?

 

[moon-bass]

Hmmmm. Here's the deal with the Nav - in order to get the preamp to sound right you need to get that clip light on the pre side to light up and then back it off just a bit. That allows for proper loading. I'm surprised that you can't get a super hot signal with the G&L.

This is assuming that when you say clip light, you mean the one on the gain side, not the master volume.

 

[agedhorse]

Hmmmm. Here's the deal with the Nav - in order to get the preamp to sound right you need to get that clip light on the pre side to light up and then back it off just a bit. That allows for proper loading. I'm surprised that you can't get a super hot signal with the G&L.

This is assuming that when you say clip light, you mean the one on the gain side, not the master volume.

Clip light has nothing to do with loading.

 

[murphy]

Rule out instrument cables...speaker cables.
Tried different basses?

 

[moon-bass]

Clip light has nothing to do with loading.

that's why I asked him which light he's referring to. This light by the gain knob -



or the lights that would actually indicate clipping



I don't know if that's quite the right terminology, but for the Nav, in order to prevent excess noise, you would want to turn up the gain knob until the light flashes consistently and then back off a touch. I've heard that called "loading" before, not sure of the proper term, but there you go.

 

[Bar Band Bassman]

Uh, I know this may sound simplistic but you said "I hear a nasty distortion on fretted notes on the E and A strings - especially when I lean into it." My first thought is action/relief on the bass neck.

BBB

 

[agedhorse]

that's why I asked him which light he's referring to. This light by the gain knob -
View attachment 7385594


or the lights that would actually indicate clipping

View attachment 7385595

I don't know if that's quite the right terminology, but for the Nav, in order to prevent excess noise, you would want to turn up the gain knob until the light flashes consistently and then back off a touch. I've heard that called "loading" before, not sure of the proper term, but there you go.

That's gain structure.

 

[abarson]

Does this problem occur with a different bass?
Does this problem occur when using either channel? (You're not running this in bridge mode, right?)
Does this problem occur with a different cabinet?

Eden Navigator WP-100 Specification : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

archive.org

Page 8 has a section on the Output Limiter Switch, which sets the output voltage towards your power amp.

 

[Jeff Scott]

Did we ever find out what that switch the OP was referring to does?

 

[DrumsAndBass]

Yes, I think that the Output Limiter Switch is what I found inside the Nav. Thanks abarson.
I will check all the cables. I've rewired my G&L without a battery but it's still hot.
As for the clip light, I do mean the input gain on the left side of the front panel. The LED's on the right only light up as far as the 3rd light - and that's a muscular stage volume. There is no fret buzz.
The horrible noise is from the 15 - the top one I think. I have not tried another bass but it has the same MFD pickups.
I will check the jacks. I do have another tube to try out. I don't plan on using another cabinet unless I have to. I bought this one brand spanking new from an authorized builder. I have been gigging this cab with the Fdeck and same power amp for 12 years @ about 36 gigs a year and about 6 different preamps without any problems.
Again, this horrible noise worsened on the last gig on December 3rd. It has shown up in years past occasionally with a Fender TBP-1 and a Demeter HBP-1. Both Aguilar DI pedals and the DB 659 were super good as was the older Mesa Boogie Subway DI.
Yes, the Crest ProLite 2.0 is bridged Mono for about 1900 watts at 4 ohms. This has worked well - the fDeck has been a savior. I know, the cab has been pushed to mechanical limits due to the power.
It's the rig pictured.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

I use my Navigator with a Crest ProLite 2.0 , Fdeck hpf-pre series 3 and a fEARful 1515/66.
I hear a nasty distortion on fretted notes on the E and A strings - especially when I lean into it. I do not boost much on the Nav at all.
The G&L bass is high output. This horrible sound is worsening.
Why ?
Should I switch the switch on the inside - for output ? Is that what it does ?
I cannot get the clip light to go on on the Nav and the Master Volume does not need to be past 9:00. Yet I can feeI and hear that the Nav slams the power amp with a heck of a strong signal.
I use an all clean and clear roots reggae tone. Now, I have clocked in about 7 - 2 hour gigs at a strong volume - and I mean strong. The tone of the Nav is otherworldly and pretty much perfect.
But this evil distortion sound is new and has me playing on egg shells.
The power amp is a happy monster as is the cab.
Am I driving the cab to ruin ? I took some photos of a switch on the inside. Is that it at the pencil tip ?

Thanks.

​

Calling out for Armin (@Bassmann1968). Hey Armin, can you pop in here and help this fellow having problems with his Eden Navigator?

 

[agedhorse]

That's certainly enough power to destroy those drivers.

You are now just guessing on the cause of your problems. You need to systematically troubleshoot your entire rig, to determine which piece it the cause. You haven't determined this yet.

There may also be issues with more than one piece, therefore you can't make assumptions. For example, just because you have used your speakers without problems before, most gear works perfectly fine right before it doesn't.

 

[S-Bigbottom]

Now, I have clocked in about 7 - 2 hour gigs at a strong volume - and I mean strong. The tone of the Nav is otherworldly and pretty much perfect.
But this evil distortion sound is new and has me playing on egg shells.
The power amp is a happy monster as is the cab.
Am I driving the cab to ruin ?

Again, this horrible noise worsened on the last gig on December 3rd. It has shown up in years past occasionally with a Fender TBP-1 and a Demeter HBP-1. Both Aguilar DI pedals and the DB 659 were super good as was the older Mesa Boogie Subway DI.
Yes, the Crest ProLite 2.0 is bridged Mono for about 1900 watts at 4 ohms. This has worked well - the fDeck has been a savior. I know, the cab has been pushed to mechanical limits due to the power.

Have you tried another amp/head and get to near volume? Yes, that is a "monster" cab but you may have over driven it and now you are hearing speaker damage.
There are a lot of speaker red flags in your posts. When pushing that close to redline It only takes that one little extra boom or thump to cause damage, and that damage may just show up at certain frequencies or volumes.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Clip light has nothing to do with loading.

That is not a clip light. It is a light as a guide to let you know when the preamp has the hottest possible clean signal to send to power section. And that point is when the input gain is set properly it flcks on momentarily with one's loudest note. If it stays on the tone will sound distorted.