Eden WT - Repair, Find Another One, or Find A New Amp

[funkygospel]

The day before Thanksgiving after months of research and driving to try out amps - I went and bought a used Eden WT-550. It looked like it was in great condition - and I brought a bass I don't love the sound of and it made it sound amazing.

I went and bought a Bergantino NXT 210 last weekend. Yesterday, I plugged them both in and the Eden now has a constant VERY loud hum - even when the master is turned all the way down and the bass is unplugged. I've done all kinds of troubleshooting and it looks like this is definitely an amp issue (not a cab, cable, or interference issue). It is a nightmare.

So, here are my questions:

I am in love with this sound. Should I just repair it? The used shop I got it from will help with that repair, but they warned that issues may re-emerge after their 30 day warranty expires.

Should I find another one that isn't made in China? Maybe one of the U.S. ones will be more reliable?

Should I just move on? I can still get my money back. I want the Eden sound. And lots of research on here and other forums tell me a Genz-Benz Streamliner, a Mesa WD-800, a Genzler Kinetix 800, or (maybe) a Darkglass M900/600 might be very similar.

I should add that I like the clean, but colored gospel tone Eden provides. I have no interest in a sterile or overdriven tone.

If you think I should just save myself the trouble with Eden, let me know which you would go with to get that CLOSE to identical sound.

Thank you!

 

[road-cat1]

My vote is for you to get it repaired. I have 4 Eden amps and have had different ones through the years. One of the China ones needed repair but still performs perfectly many years later. Unless the cost of repair is high, I would take the chance on repair by a highly qualified technician. If it goes down a second time, I would start looking for something else. I also have a Genzler Magellan 800 that comes close to the Eden sound and it's my backup. WT 550 at church rig, WT 400 home studio, Eden navigator at my steady theater gig and spares in my closet. If it goes out again, keep in touch with me I might sell you one of the spares I have in the closet as backups.

 

[agedhorse]

Just beware that there are parts that are no longer available for those amps. You don't want to pay for a repair that can't be completed, unless you are willing to take that risk.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Out-of-box failures? It goes right back as there are any number of properly-functioning alternatives available. What's a bench fee run nowadays....70-80 bucks? If the shop / seller is willing to intervene for nothing, that may sway me provided the remediation is stupid simple. Otherwise, back she goes!

Riis

 

[TomB]

As someone who gigged Eden heads for very many years, I would suggest that the Genz Shuttle series also will get you "close" to that sound. I also liked the "Golden Ear" preamp that Eden came up with for the Time Traveler and other products a while ago. I'm not sure if their newer products continue that legacy, but it's worth a look as that series had "the sound" IMO. TB still has an Eden expert in @Rip Van Dan - I bet he'll be along .
Oh, and since you asked, I agree that a return would be wise.

 

[aguacateojos]

My WT800 was fried by a buddy in 2012 and I still haven't found someone that can fix it.

 

[Low Main]

I sent an Eden WT 260 to Cafe Walter for repairs and he did very well. A small lightweight amp, the shipping cost wasn't that much.

Walter had a lot of work and was pretty backed up last time I checked with him. Not sure what his amp repair schedule is like these days.

The little Eden isn't my main amp but I like the sound of it well enough to keep it working. It was my gateway to the Eden sound.

I also have a Nemesis (Eden) head that I like and I've seen those for sale at modest prices.

It's a good plan B. Some Eden freaks like Nemesis heads even better than Edens, so they say.

But the Nemesis I have weighs a ton. It doesn't leave the music room.

Living outside the Boston area, I'm lucky, there are at least two repair shops I could go to if needed and one of them only does tube amps.

 

[TN WOODMAN]

I ran up on an Eden WT500 Highwayman & 410XLT cabinet in NOS condition a few years back. Running in bridged configuration, I've relegated this as my stay home , don't move rig.

I worry about the issue AGED HORSE presented-are these amps even repairable due to scarcity of parts for repairs? I'll cross that bridge if & when but until , these Golden Ear era amps are exceptional time capsules.

I'm lucky with my proximity to Nashville & know of a few reputable amp techs when the time comes. I'll want to keep the old girl going but at a minimum I'll still have a great but heavy cab. Same issue if I blow a driver but that's another topic.

 

[TN WOODMAN]

FYI
My main rig is a Markbass Jeff Berlin combo with NY151 extension cab. I've been running this as my primary rig since 2008 & with no issues whatsoever & still love the tone, weight & modular portability.

 

[Thumpin6string]

Contact TB member Hand slap. He repaired my A.M.P. (which has the same power amp) and does the Eden WTs also. A great guy and an excellent tech.

 

[aguacateojos]

Contact TB member Hand slap. He repaired my A.M.P. (which has the same power amp) and does the Eden WTs also. A great guy and an excellent tech.

I'm not the OP but I'll send a message there - I'd love the possibility of fixing my WT800, if only so I could sell it and not have a brick for another decade+.

 

[Wasnex]

There is some degree of risk the amp will not be repairable. This is partly because it may use semiconductors that have been discontinued.

Getting an older amp repaired usually entails paying a non-refundable bench fee. The fee may cover the full repair if the problem is simple. Or you may be given an estimate for the repair and asked for authorization to move ahead. If you decline the repair, your out the bench fee.

Repairs are not always successful. Even when they appear successful, they may not hold...meaning the amp may let out magic smoke again after a short period of time.

I have had quite a few pieces of electronics that failed and ultimately were not repairable by authorized repair centers. Some of these included items that experienced catastrophic failure within the warranty period. One item was so bad that the highest level of factory service eventually told me repair was not possible. Another item was repaired, but failed again about a month later. After that, they said they would cover parts but I would have to cover labor, which is usually the bulk of the cost.

It's up to you to decide how much you value the amp's unique personality and if it's worth taking a chance on repair.

 

[HolmeBass]

I played Eden for years, a Metro which is a combo with basically a WT-550 with an added solid state channel, into a DXT-210. Great amp, 2 ohm stable, I loved it.

But the world has moved on. Seriously. ANY of the amps you listed is better. I am now using a Mesa D-800+ and would never go back. I transitioned out of Eden into a Streamliner 900, but for what I think you want I would look for a used ShuttleMax 9.2.

As far as new amps, the Magellan could also work out great for you. Don't sleep on the new Quilter, either, that amp looks fantastic. I have the original BB-800 which might be too clean for your tastes - but also maybe not. That thing has some serious heft to the low end.

 

[Boneless]

Everything is repairable. A technician worthy of being called one can adapt different semiconductors to an existing design, if he and his client so wishes. It is true that lateral MOSFETs, quite common in a lot of pro audio and MI amps, are only available today from one manufacturer basically and they will probably not share the same form factor as the devices employed by the amp. The real question is: is it worth it? A good repair would make the amp as good as new, possibly even better, but you need to find a technician who is willing to adapt stuff and knows what he's doing. You should also be willing to foot the bill (if it's an expensive repair, the shop will just give you a refund). Also, there are a lot of amps out there.

 

[agedhorse]

Everything is repairable. A technician worthy of being called one can adapt different semiconductors to an existing design, if he and his client so wishes. It is true that lateral MOSFETs, quite common in a lot of pro audio and MI amps, are only available today from one manufacturer basically and they will probably not share the same form factor as the devices employed by the amp. The real question is: is it worth it? A good repair would make the amp as good as new, possibly even better, but you need to find a technician who is willing to adapt stuff and knows what he's doing. You should also be willing to foot the bill (if it's an expensive repair, the shop will just give you a refund). Also, there are a lot of amps out there.

Unfortunately, there are amps that just don't make sense to repair, either because suitable parts are no longer available or the damage has made it impractical to repair. Badly damaged PCB's sometimes must be replaced, especially when a component burns the laminate and damages traces.

What tech will refund the cost of a repair if after diagnostics the customer decides not to go forward? The diagnostics costs are generally still owed (my shop is an exception, but only for products I designed).

 

[Rip Van Dan]

As someone who gigged Eden heads for very many years, I would suggest that the Genz Shuttle series also will get you "close" to that sound. I also liked the "Golden Ear" preamp that Eden came up with for the Time Traveler and other products a while ago. I'm not sure if their newer products continue that legacy, but it's worth a look as that series had "the sound" IMO. TB still has an Eden expert in @Rip Van Dan - I bet he'll be along .
Oh, and since you asked, I agree that a return would be wise.

I can certainly put the OP in touch with the shop that worked on my WT500/800 when it took a header off the top of my 410 onto the cement in 2017. It distorted badly when I plugged it in after the fall. Took it to them and had to wait my turn, which took a couple of months. They are very well known, busy, and not cheap. But they are really good. When I called, I asked them if they would like me to bring along a schematic because I have the schematics to the WT500, WT600, and WT800 amps. The WT600 and 800 have the same preamp, but the WT500 doesn't have the bi-amp circuits. They all the same power sections but have different power supplies. That's why it was so easy for David to upgrade the power supply of my amp from 500-watts bridged to 800-watts. They all fit in the same chassis. They repair shop already one and and said no thanks, they had everything they needed.

When they got to my amp, that drop had loosened the toroidal transformer and it rotated out of alignment. They rotated it slightly to realign it, tightened it back down, and it worked fine again. They also went through the rest of the circuits and did find a couple of transistors that had gone south, so they replaced those. The repair center is Aviator Audio and they are located in Edmonds, WA, which is in the Seattle area. I can dig out their address and phone if the OP needs it.

Regarding the Golden Ear chip (THAT-4301) that is used in the WT Time Traveler amps (WT330, WT390, & WT405), they are also included in the Eden Terra Nova amps. I have the TN-226 (225-watts into 4Ω that I use for small venues and was amazed that the little Class D TN-226 sounded just a warm using that Golden Ear chip as my WT500/800, that actually has a tube in the preamp to generate the warmth.

 

[TomB]

I too was astonished at how closely that chip copped the vibe of the original Demeter-designed Eden VT series amps - lovely! I haven't run into a Terra Nova but thanks Rip for the info.

 

[TomB]

I too was astonished at how closely that Golden Ear chip copped the vibe of the original Demeter-designed preamp in the Eden VT series amps - even closer than the WT which is its own legend - lovely! I haven't run into a Terra Nova yet, but thanks Rip for the info.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

The day before Thanksgiving after months of research and driving to try out amps - I went and bought a used Eden WT-550. It looked like it was in great condition - and I brought a bass I don't love the sound of and it made it sound amazing.

I went and bought a Bergantino NXT 210 last weekend. Yesterday, I plugged them both in and the Eden now has a constant VERY loud hum - even when the master is turned all the way down and the bass is unplugged. I've done all kinds of troubleshooting and it looks like this is definitely an amp issue (not a cab, cable, or interference issue). It is a nightmare.

So, here are my questions:

I am in love with this sound. Should I just repair it? The used shop I got it from will help with that repair, but they warned that issues may re-emerge after their 30 day warranty expires.

Should I find another one that isn't made in China? Maybe one of the U.S. ones will be more reliable?

Should I just move on? I can still get my money back. I want the Eden sound. And lots of research on here and other forums tell me a Genz-Benz Streamliner, a Mesa WD-800, a Genzler Kinetix 800, or (maybe) a Darkglass M900/600 might be very similar.

I should add that I like the clean, but colored gospel tone Eden provides. I have no interest in a sterile or overdriven tone.

If you think I should just save myself the trouble with Eden, let me know which you would go with to get that CLOSE to identical sound.

Thank you!

Actually @funkygospel the move of manufacturing from the USA to China came about in 2011 if I remember correctly. The whole reason the move was made was because USM had moved Edens factory again and many of the techs didn't move with it. The founder, David Nordschow, left Eden to found DNA in 2009 and USM just made the move. That was a HUGE mistake. Then suddenly a whole bunch of Eden amps were showing up dead on arrival. Evidently the Quality Control department disappeared because a lot of stuff got out that had to be replaced. Customer Service was very busy for a while and replaced every defective one that got out there.

Meantime the Chinese factory that had been building the Eden Nemesis line of amps was just tooling along making good amps. I was on the Eden Forum from 2008 until Marshall turned it off in about 2017. I was one of the two active moderators on the forum, and we never had people posting about having trouble with their Nemesis amps. So it wasn't much of a stretch for Eden to decide to have that same factory, who had already been building David's Nemesis designs for a decade or more, to take over building the Eden WT amps. It took a number of months for them to get amps built and shipped to the US, but as soon as they started arriving the problems with Eden amps disappeared. Although it's certainly not intuitive, the made in China Eden amps were a top-quality build and solved all the dead-on-arrival problems that Eden had. So if I was buying an Eden amp now, I would much prefer a made-in-China amp than a made in USA amp from around 2010-2011.

If you are in the Seattle area I can refer you to Aviator Audio in Edmonds, WA (Seattle area). I used them back in 2017 after my WT550/800 slid off the top of my 410 while I was rolling it up to our rehearsal space. When I plugged it in, it distorted badly. The main problem was that the toroidal transformer rotated out of alignment and once they realigned it, it worked great again. They are busy and not cheap, but they are excellent. I can dig out their address and phone for you if that would work.

If you want to get another amp that has that Eden Sound, I'd suggest the 500-watt version of their Terra Nova amp, the TN-501. It has one fewer semi-parametric control than the WT550, but the two it has let you address any frequency between 30Hz and 2KHz. The Treble control on it is a shelving control for everything about 2KHz. I have it's little brother the TN-226 that puts out 225-watts into 4Ω that I use for small venues. It's a sweet little amp and the preamp is the same for both. And, it sounds just like my 800-watt WT500/800 amp.

The TN-501 doesn't have the ability to run down to 2Ω like the WT-550 does, but if you don't need to run down to 2Ω it is a very nice class D amp that weighs just 5.2-lbs. and puts out 500-watts rms into 4Ω. Problem is that Eden has been out of them for over a year now. When Gear4Music bought Eden from Marshall, Marshall retained the manufacturing end of Eden Gear and they've done a poor job of it. Street price for the TN501 was around $650 new and to my knowledge, buying used is the only option. Good news is that they are a much newer manufacture than the WT550 was, so parts shouldn't be a problem should something go south with them. Bad news is that, although they are usually sold for less than the new price, discounted prices on them aren't all that much less.

 

[jjk2007]

I bought a WT550 that developed some serious issues. Fortunately, there is an amp tech here in the Austin area was able to repair it. He was able to fix the issues and even work some kind of magic to isolate the main transformer to lower the noise floor/hum of the amp. Unfortunately, I had a couple of other things go wrong after about a year of using it and had to take it back to him. This last time I had him go through the entire unit as he was fixing it. I went ahead and sold it a couple of months ago but it was running like a well oiled machine when I did. As much as I have always loved the Eden stuff my Genzler gear is far superior…..and much easier on the back too!