Double Bass ehrlund contact pu-mike

[Ric Vice]

¨
Jonas, it looks like you have the best solution I've seen so far to the cable noise problem. Part of the problem isn't just how to clamp it to the tailpiece, but also how long the cable is and what kind of jack is used. The main thing is to get the cable down to the minimum.

Does the switchcraft jack work with the Ehrlund's battery-powered preamp? Is that the Fishman switchjack or is it from Switchcraft?

Although the Fishman Full Circle Jack works it has a tendency to move around a little and you have to be a little careful when you disconnect it or it will come all the way off. Jona's way is much stabler and you can get a better handle on the length of the cord. The shorter you can get that cord the better, because if it touches a vibrating surface it distorts the signal from the pickup.

Ric

 

[William Hoffman]

Although the Fishman Full Circle Jack works it has a tendency to move around a little and you have to be a little careful when you disconnect it or it will come all the way off. Jona's way is much stabler and you can get a better handle on the length of the cord. The shorter you can get that cord the better, because if it touches a vibrating surface it distorts the signal from the pickup.

Ric

thanks Ric.

the other question i had was about the Ehrlund preamp. will the Ehrlund pickup preamp work just as well with the Full Circle jack or with the Switchjack?

 

[TroyK]

My cable was shortened to 10" and Front End Audio installed a 1/4" jack.

 

[Ric Vice]

Troy,



As for the putty, that seems to be an issue- on Göran's site it looks like he's using some green schertler-like gum, whereas I saw a box once where it shipped with white striplike bits... I don't know. I have some schertler goo and I am going to use that, once I have my Ehrlund...

Mr Side Car,
Actually the stuff on Goran's Site and what ships from Front End Audio is actually Green Tack It. I purchased a tin of Schertler Putty from Django Books and it seems work better than the Tack It. It's more flexible of course it cost a whole lot more.

Ric

 

[Ric Vice]

thanks Ric.

the other question i had was about the Ehrlund preamp. will the Ehrlund pickup preamp work just as well with the Full Circle jack or with the Switchjack?

William,
Well, I only have experience with the Full Circle Jack and the Ehrlund Preamp works just fine with it. As far as the Switchjack I have no experience with it. What really counts as you already know is that the Ehrlund cable is isolated from the bass.

Ric

 

[William Hoffman]

William,
Well, I only have experience with the Full Circle Jack and the Ehrlund Preamp works just fine with it. As far as the Switchjack I have no experience with it. What really counts as you already know is that the Ehrlund cable is isolated from the bass.

Ric

thanks again Ric. at the risk of asking a question i should know the answer to, do you know -- is the Ehrlund an "active" pickup or a "passive" one? does the jack (whether FC or Switchjack) need to have the battery connection in the jack itself?

 

[Ric Vice]

thanks again Ric. at the risk of asking a question i should know the answer to, do you know -- is the Ehrlund an "active" pickup or a "passive" one? does the jack (whether FC or Switchjack) need to have the battery connection in the jack itself?

William,
The pickup needs to have some kind of pre amp to drive it but the connection isn't in the 1/4" jack. I tried just plugging it into the Walter Woods but it didn't sound all that good. In my thinking that would make it an "active pickup" but I'm not a technical expert by any means.

Ric

 

[jmmcc]

The pickup is passive.
It only needs an Hi impedance input.
Normally amp imputs are about 1MOhm.
Most piezos need more than 3MOhm.
That's why you need a Preamp that have an higher impedance input.

Best Regards

 

[William Hoffman]

...I'll let you know if new putty solves that problem.

Now, the cable and mounting. When it's bad, it's horrendous. Right now I've got it velcro'ed and electrical taped to my hand carved tail piece trying to keep it still. Not only can the cable not be touching anything, but it needs to be still. It's hard for me to say if some of the problem is the Front End Audio install of the 1/4" jack, but it's twitchy. Maybe I need to replace the jack with something else, don't know.

I could change to an afterlengths slip install. Is that working for everyone? I don't like things in my afterlengths, but maybe that's the way. I may also try they clip from the ball end of the E-String, but my tailpiece doesn't have all the extra space in the string holes that most have, so I'm not sure if that's going to work. I'm also not sure that it would hold it still enough to be quiet.

Last night went better. Let's home for better still tonight...

TroyK, re-reading your post, i see a number of issues. First, i don't have any problem with the white putty strips i got from Ehrlund. hope that works out for you.

Second, there are the interrelated issues of the cable noise and of mounting the jack. did you find that you got cable noise from the jack vibrating against your tailpiece with your velcro and tape setup? did you solve this issue at all yet?

i am thinking of going with the Fishman Full Circle replacement jack because it will hold the cable firmly away from the bass and tailpiece so it touches nothing. the only remaining question i have there is: will the Ehrlund then pick up any vibrations off the afterlengths?

this setup would also address the need to be able to take it off easily whenever you want.

how did it work out for you the other night?

 

[TroyK]

You know, I didn't have a problem with the white putty that came with it at first either, but it changed consistency suddenly, I think due to some weather phenom. Not just the pieces I used, but the whole pack. The Elmers putty I bought was an improvement and the sound Sunday night was good.

The Velcro thing isn't working for me, most likely because I don't have the space under the ball end of the E-String. I have a custom tailpiece and the opening there is only really big enough for the string. I have been velcroing it to the middle of the tailpiece, but it doesn't hold it tight enough and a couple of things happen 1) it vibrates, 2) even if I get it pretty tight, it slides down just enough over the course of the night to start pulling the contact mic out of position. I managed Saturday and Sunday by this method, plus a goodly portion of electrical tape right around the jack/velcro and tailpiece. Don't love that method, but it works for now.

I think either off of the e string in a clip or in the afterlengths would be a better approach, but the former may not be "removable" enough for me and the later has a good chance of vibrating too much, but may be worth a try.

I also wonder if the jack install from Front End Audio might be a little flawed. There is a 1" spring coming up from the jack that seems to interfere with the process and give the cable something else to vibrate against. I might replace it with an RCA jack and connect it to a Full Circle like jack either mounted in the afterlengths or a clip on the E String.

I want it to work, I just need reliable performance. If my gear overshadows a show I was hired to play in, then...well it just can't be.

 

[Ric Vice]

I also wonder if the jack install from Front End Audio might be a little flawed. There is a 1" spring coming up from the jack that seems to interfere with the process and give the cable something else to vibrate against. I might replace it with an RCA jack and connect it to a Full Circle like jack either mounted in the afterlengths or a clip on the E String.

Troy,
I'd get rid of that jack from Front End I did because someone early in the thread warned about the spring causing vibration problems with the cable, his solution was to put electrician's tape on it.

Ric

 

[William Hoffman]

the jack with the spring is also on the pickup as ordered directly from Göran. looking forward to a different jack, maybe the Full Circle replacement jack...

 

[TroyK]

Is it also a problem for you, William?

I'm really impressed with what a nice contact mic they made, but I'm baffled as to why they didn't work these issues out before taking it commercial.

 

[jmmcc]

The Velcro thing isn't working for me,

Did you try to use the putty to secure the cable to the tailpiece? Just an idea ...

 

[TroyK]

No, I didn't think to try that. Interesting idea. I would be really happy if it worked.

 

[Brent Nussey]

Troy,

My suggestion would be to take a pipe clamp like the one bassadder used:

but take a Dremel or other such tool and cut slots into it like this:


Then you can use it like the Realist mounting method, but easily slip it on or off by just loosening the E string, rather than having to remove the string completely. I made a mount for a clip-on mic like this some years ago, it worked great.

Brent

 

[TroyK]

That's an interesting idea. Wouldn't be a big deal to loosen the E string to uninstall, but if I had to take the string off every time, i wouldn't do it.

 

[William Hoffman]

William,
Well, I only have experience with the Full Circle Jack and the Ehrlund Preamp works just fine with it. As far as the Switchjack I have no experience with it.

I just got an email back from Göran (he was very responsive to my questions about how to properly set the Ehrlund up with a different jack). He says the Fishman Full Circle replacement jack will work, but that the 4-pronged Switchjack will not.

That last point is contrary to what others have said, but I am going to go with the Full Circle jack because I want to be able to detach it easily. Thanks, Ric, for confirming that the Full Circle jack works.

Ric, one last thing: How did you connect the cable to the RCA plug on the back end of the FC jack? Is there any trick to doing that? Which wire goes where? Did you have to change anything on the pickup itself?

..I'm really impressed with what a nice contact mic they made, but I'm baffled as to why they didn't work these issues out before taking it commercial.

My feelings exactly. The only explanation I can give is that this pickup is not just for bass but for violin, guitar, etc., and Göran did not work out completely the best way for bass. He is probably reading this thread and will start making the Ehrlund with Full Circle jacks....

 

[Ric Vice]

.........

Ric, one last thing: How did you connect the cable to the RCA plug on the back end of the FC jack? Is there any trick to doing that? Which wire goes where? Did you have to change anything on the pickup itself?

William,
I took it to a shop here in St. Louis that does all kinds of Guitar and Electric Bass Setups. It takes someone with a good knowledge of guitar electronics, preamps and such. The technician did say that the pickup had an extra ground that had to be connected inside the RCA Jack. I don't fool with that type of stuff myself. There is one additional thing as well, when you order the full circle get yourself an RCA Jack from Radio Shack, plug it into the back of the Full Circle Jack to check the clearance with it mounted in the afterlength, just to make sure the cable will clear the top of the bass. Fishman dosen't send one of those with the FC Jack.

Ric

 

[William Hoffman]

William,
I took it to a shop here in St. Louis that does all kinds of Guitar and Electric Bass Setups. It takes someone with a good knowledge of guitar electronics, preamps and such. The technician did say that the pickup had an extra ground that had to be connected inside the RCA Jack. I don't fool with that type of stuff myself. There is one additional thing as well, when you order the full circle get yourself an RCA Jack from Radio Shack, plug it into the back of the Full Circle Jack to check the clearance with it mounted in the afterlength, just to make sure the cable will clear the top of the bass. Fishman dosen't send one of those with the FC Jack.

Ric

Thanks again Ric

One more question: the Fishman shop online says its FC replacement jack is complete with an RCA plug in it.

Look here and scroll down to the Full Circle replacement jack, then press "Product Details": Link Removed

Full Circle Jack

Replacement jack assembly for Full Circle pickups.

This is a complete replacement for the original jack assembly provided with the Full Circle pickup system (all models). It has an rca style jack on one side and a 1/4 jack on the other, which is designed to receive the rca plug from the Full Circle and allow connection via standard instrument cable to an amplifier. "

My question: Didn't you get an RCA plug with your FC jack?