Not if you find a way to keep the cable away from the bass top. Like wrapping some velcroe (reissverschluss) tape around the cable and sticking a bit also on the back of the tailpiece -- that would keep the cable from touching!
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Double Bass ehrlund contact pu-mike
- Thread starter igor kondur
- Start date
Not if you find a way to keep the cable away from the bass top. Like wrapping some velcroe (reissverschluss) tape around the cable and sticking a bit also on the back of the tailpiece -- that would keep the cable from touching!
Those clips are sure sufficient to keep me away from that pu-mic. Sounds quite mid-range heavy and unnatural to me.
mid-range heavy is the one thing that doens't come to my mind with those...
Well, maybe if we're talking really low mids. To me, it doesn't have those harsh telephone mids I have in mind when talking about "midrange heavy". Unnatural, I can't really hear that either, maybe a little in terms of wobbly ultrafat low end (clip 1).
But, I might easily be wrong, it depends on what system you hear the clips as well, and all our boats float differently, of course.
Sidecar
Actually, when I said mid-range heavy, I really did mean the typical mid-range, right smack dab around 1 kHz or so. There's a very nasal quality to those clips (as heard on a good system). To be fair, this could likely be remedied with some careful tone-shaping. As for unnatural, my gold standard is what a DB sounds like acoustically, live or as captured by a high-quality mic. No pickup could really live up to that but some get closer than others. The clips make it very apparent that I'm listening to some "electronic" version of a DB. I agree with you that it's often difficult to know how to evaluate recordings when their setup is unknown. I can't say for sure what the pickup would sound like on my bass and using my recording apparatus. Still, for whatever reasons, we judge these recordings very differently. As you said, our boats do float differently, to each his own, YYMV, IMO-- but what I report is what my trained ears tell me.
Drurb,
that unnatural-thing... upon closer scrutinization I can relate to that. To me, it's this close-mic characteristic that happens when the mic is not in the room.
Could you, now that we're at it, post clips or links to clips that come closer to your gold standard? Of course I know what a bass sounds like with a microphone, but I'm just curious and always on the lookout to learning things. Maybe my ears tell me shite. Actually, I'm reluctant trusting them anyways, when it comes to sound quality.
Best
Sidecar
You know, as I was posting, I went searching around for exactly such sound clips. I found that the links here at TB to pickup sound clips (in the sticky threads) are broken. I'll keep searching around. If others know of any, I hope they'll chime in.
Actually, when I said mid-range heavy, I really did mean the typical mid-range, right smack dab around 1 kHz or so. There's a very nasal quality to those clips (as heard on a good system). To be fair, this could likely be remedied with some careful tone-shaping. As for unnatural, my gold standard is what a DB sounds like acoustically, live or as captured by a high-quality mic. No pickup could really live up to that but some get closer than others. The clips make it very apparent that I'm listening to some "electronic" version of a DB. I agree with you that it's often difficult to know how to evaluate recordings when their setup is unknown. I can't say for sure what the pickup would sound like on my bass and using my recording apparatus. Still, for whatever reasons, we judge these recordings very differently. As you said, our boats do float differently, to each his own, YYMV, IMO-- but what I report is what my trained ears tell me.
drurb, that would be very nice if you could post some clips of a mic that meet your gold standard. i have a fairly primitive headphone and PC here to listen to the ehrland clips, and to my perhaps less-trained ears they sounded pretty good. in any event, i will be able soon to test the ehrland out -- without relying on clips -- because i ordered one from Göran the other day and it should be here before too long.
drurb, that would be very nice if you could post some clips of a mic that meet your gold standard. i have a fairly primitive headphone and PC here to listen to the ehrland clips, and to my perhaps less-trained ears they sounded pretty good. in any event, i will be able soon to test the ehrland out -- without relying on clips -- because i ordered one from Göran the other day and it should be here before too long.
I'm still hoping someone will chime in and help locate a site that has clips of different pups. I'll keep looking. As I mentioned, my judgments were only about the clips that were posted. Whether they are representative of the pups sound, I can't say for sure. Please do post about the ehrland after you have it installed.
Does anyone know how feedback-resistant this thing is? Is it any better than a regular mic? Or should I say, does it produce usable sound with an amp that is comparable to a piezo?
apparently there is some bleed. my guess is it will feed back in a loud or small situation. not yer rock concert kinda pu, but good for the acoustic setting (where amp is not the main sound source). that's what i'd use it for. we'll see when it gets here...
the ehrlund acoustic pickup (EAP) or "linear mic" came in the mail today and i spent some time with it trying it out.
i used my ai clarus and ai contra ex (the ai ex has considerable mid-range when used alone). i tried it on my gut string bass, with which i normally use a neumann km 185 because i like to just increase the volume of the clear natural sound of gut.
first, this is an extremely sensitive pickup, much more than a realist. using the putty to firmly attach it to the top of the bass, i experimented with a few positions across the top. this mobility and flexibility for placing it in a variety of positions was a very attractive feature for me, something you don't find in most other pickups except schertler dyn-b. the position that sounded the best (so far) with the EAP was just below the E string bridge foot but further out close to the ff hole. in that position it picks up sound from every part of the instrument, FB, all strings, bridge. the thing is so sensitive it picks up all of the noise made by the EAP cable running to the preamp if the cable touches the instrument or anything else, e.g., a foot.
second, the sound through the amp was transparent and very natural, not muddy or tinny. again, the comparison that comes to mind is with the realist, which has less definition (muddier) than the EAP. the ehrlund gives good strong and richly natural bass signal, a clear transmission of my bass' sound. i think the EAP will be a great accompaniment for playing acoustically where not a lot of extra volume is required. there are mids, yes, as some have pointed out, and i did cut out most of the mids and boosted the bass a little at first. but finally i then set the bass and treble knobs on the clarus flat. the sound at that point was very good, not really far off from a good condenser mic such as the neumann km 185 or perhaps the amt S25B, only with the EAP i could get more volume before feedback than with either of those, at least in my practice room.
finally, the one thing i am not sure how i will deal with yet is the noise it picks up from the cable. you attach the EAP with putty on the top of your bass, and the cable then runs or falls straight down. i put the little preamp on the floor at first but then realized i need to get the cable out and away from the instrument. i guess you can hook the preamp on your belt, but that doesn't seem to solve the problem. i tried hooking the preamp onto my music stand, and this worked fine. i am going to try using velcro tape to hold the cable firmly alongside but not touching the tailpiece and have it run out and away from the bass, or maybe weighting the cable in some way to the floor so it stays out away from the bass.
over the years i've used a number of pickups (realist - both old and new versions, bassmax, double big twin) and mics (neumann km 185, amt s25b, vektor, k&k golden bullet) and this new little ehrlund has imo a more natural and clear sound than all of those except the neumann. so imo the EAP comes in second in my list and ahead of the amt and vektor, both of which i also like very much and use often. i also have the impression i can get more gain before feedback with the EAP than with any condenser mic i've used in my practice room (but i have to reserve the right to come back on this point after i've gigged with it).
all in all, the EAP is -- imho and based on just a preliminary try-out -- a very good pickup. i don't think bassists would want it who need to play loud gigs, but for amping an acoustic bass in a quieter setting it is very satisfactory and true to the acoustic sound. the thing with the cable noise is the one downside, and certainly the realist is more hassle-free in that regard. however, the EAP beats the realist in terms of sound, and is more like a good mic than most pickups i've used or heard. above all, the clarity and trueness of the sound gives the EAP a real advantage over standard piezo pickups, and its flexibility of positions where it can be used, and its gain before feedback ought to make it a favorite for some bassists. i think that includes me, but i'll have to revert after gigging for a while.
i used my ai clarus and ai contra ex (the ai ex has considerable mid-range when used alone). i tried it on my gut string bass, with which i normally use a neumann km 185 because i like to just increase the volume of the clear natural sound of gut.
first, this is an extremely sensitive pickup, much more than a realist. using the putty to firmly attach it to the top of the bass, i experimented with a few positions across the top. this mobility and flexibility for placing it in a variety of positions was a very attractive feature for me, something you don't find in most other pickups except schertler dyn-b. the position that sounded the best (so far) with the EAP was just below the E string bridge foot but further out close to the ff hole. in that position it picks up sound from every part of the instrument, FB, all strings, bridge. the thing is so sensitive it picks up all of the noise made by the EAP cable running to the preamp if the cable touches the instrument or anything else, e.g., a foot.
second, the sound through the amp was transparent and very natural, not muddy or tinny. again, the comparison that comes to mind is with the realist, which has less definition (muddier) than the EAP. the ehrlund gives good strong and richly natural bass signal, a clear transmission of my bass' sound. i think the EAP will be a great accompaniment for playing acoustically where not a lot of extra volume is required. there are mids, yes, as some have pointed out, and i did cut out most of the mids and boosted the bass a little at first. but finally i then set the bass and treble knobs on the clarus flat. the sound at that point was very good, not really far off from a good condenser mic such as the neumann km 185 or perhaps the amt S25B, only with the EAP i could get more volume before feedback than with either of those, at least in my practice room.
finally, the one thing i am not sure how i will deal with yet is the noise it picks up from the cable. you attach the EAP with putty on the top of your bass, and the cable then runs or falls straight down. i put the little preamp on the floor at first but then realized i need to get the cable out and away from the instrument. i guess you can hook the preamp on your belt, but that doesn't seem to solve the problem. i tried hooking the preamp onto my music stand, and this worked fine. i am going to try using velcro tape to hold the cable firmly alongside but not touching the tailpiece and have it run out and away from the bass, or maybe weighting the cable in some way to the floor so it stays out away from the bass.
over the years i've used a number of pickups (realist - both old and new versions, bassmax, double big twin) and mics (neumann km 185, amt s25b, vektor, k&k golden bullet) and this new little ehrlund has imo a more natural and clear sound than all of those except the neumann. so imo the EAP comes in second in my list and ahead of the amt and vektor, both of which i also like very much and use often. i also have the impression i can get more gain before feedback with the EAP than with any condenser mic i've used in my practice room (but i have to reserve the right to come back on this point after i've gigged with it).
all in all, the EAP is -- imho and based on just a preliminary try-out -- a very good pickup. i don't think bassists would want it who need to play loud gigs, but for amping an acoustic bass in a quieter setting it is very satisfactory and true to the acoustic sound. the thing with the cable noise is the one downside, and certainly the realist is more hassle-free in that regard. however, the EAP beats the realist in terms of sound, and is more like a good mic than most pickups i've used or heard. above all, the clarity and trueness of the sound gives the EAP a real advantage over standard piezo pickups, and its flexibility of positions where it can be used, and its gain before feedback ought to make it a favorite for some bassists. i think that includes me, but i'll have to revert after gigging for a while.
PS: i forgot to mention: i wrote "volume/gain before feedback" but i have to say i did not have ANY feedback with the EAP today in the practice room, except when i placed my thumb on top of the pickup while the amp was on. then it gave a huge howl. but despite the volume knob on the clarus being at 12:00 o'clock (which i can never do with the neumann or amt even in a much bigger room), there was NO feedback.
drurb, mathias, i'll try to post some raw sound clips next chance i get.
drurb, mathias, i'll try to post some raw sound clips next chance i get.
- Dec 9, 2003
- 369
- 45
- Disclosures
- Kontrabass-Atelier, Lando Music (Germany), "The Double Bass Book"/"Das Kontrabass-Buch"
You can also use the Ehrlund-PU like a Underwood-type of pickup, in the wing slot. Sounds good, too.
Just received mine and had a quick trial on my old bass strung with Chorda CH set. Sounds good in the first spot I try near f hole and E string side of bridge. Just an initial experiment re how hard to press to the wood finds that leaving a little air sounds more acoustic but the closer you get its a bit more gain. The acoustic like sound is impressive and only just sounds piezo .... Most acoustic or mic like piezo ever .... with a little air space there the arco is even more mic like ...more to come and will try to do a recording sometime when I get time to set it up ........ VERY sensitive to placement but soon as you find a good spot its great
Has anyone tested this pickup on a gig yet? I'm wondering if it is worth trying, particularly if it has any better feedback-to-volume ratio and bleed from other instruments than a dynamic mic does. Also, how much do they cost in US$, and is there anywhere other than directly from Ehrlund that you can buy them?
Göran Ehrlund wrote to me saying:
"About raw clips, the sound clips on my web site played by Lars Ekström is raw. I shell try to get some more samples when I have some time over."
Hopefully you can access those raw clips, drurb.
i agree with that assessment that it sounds very much like a good mic. i'll have to experiment with more air.
but: are you sure this is a "piezo"? göran calls it a "linear mic". anybody know what's the difference there?
Bill
I'm very sure it's NOT a piezo. Difference in short and unscientific: Piezos are crystals that transform vibration/pressure into current (and current into vibration, vice versa). In a mic, a membrane picks up the vibration of the air, and this is transformed into current either by magnetic induction (dynamic mic) or in condensor mics by condensor effect (the foil being one part of a condenser). Condensor mics need a current (they are active and require phantom power or batteries).
Best
Sidecar
