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Double Bass ehrlund contact pu-mike

#81
I'd like to know how loud it can go if you use a notch and phase before feedback. Like can it keep up with a mid volume drummer? Seems it could do well with the Doubler. You can adjust the signal on input jack #2 on the Doubler for passive pickups, etc., or use a Headway pre if needed. The price is right. I may go for one instead of a FC. I like the idea of getting tone from the top and F holes of the bass.

I'll keep reading these posts with great interest.
 
#82
i'm curious about the ehrlund, but comparing it to the dpa is really an apples/oranges kinda thing. if anything, i'm thinking the ehrlund might be a good mix with the dpa, but ... the dpa is a "real microphone" made by folks who make real microphones.

i think it comes down to dpa>house, pickup of your choice (perhaps mixed with the dpa)>amp.

jeff.

Rick Middleton said:
Ahh, Rich.. I was hoping you would give some more words of wisdom on the Ehrlund:) You have really made me interested in the EAP, especially as your GAS says about finding a pickup system that actually sounds like your bass!



Yeah Goran seems like a nice guy to me from the communications I have had with him.



You're using a Markbass amp aren't you Rich? Their input impedance is only 500K Ohms I think, so the Erhlund would need some preamp before that... What other preamps have you tried it with? And what differences did you notice? I have had hints that maybe Ehrlunds Preamp has some kind of EQ curve built into it.. is this your experience?

I emailed Jonas Lohse about the Ehrlund and asked him if it would work well without its own preamp into a Doubler or F-Deck HF Pre. He replied....


As I mentioned in my earlier post I like to know WHY? and WHAT? things are doing... maybe that's the Physicist in me talking :hiding:



Of course Rich - this is the Holy Grail....like a mic but without the feedback! AMEN to that.


Listening to the soundclips of the Ehrlund it appears a hundred times more natural soudning and "mic-like" than my Realist does raw, but it doesn't seem to have quite the sparkle of a good mic like say the DPA4099.... but perhaps with a bit of EQ it could be pretty close...

I hate to hassle people... but.. is there any chance you could record the Ehrlund raw signal at a drummer gig Rich? Pretty please ;)

At the moment I just can't decide whether to get a Ehrlund, or a DPA 4099... maybe I'll just have to buy them both to find out which is best. :hmm:.... I'd better hope my eBay auctions go well this evening......

Rick
Click to expand...
 
#83
jrlynch said:
i'm curious about the ehrlund, but comparing it to the dpa is really an apples/oranges kinda thing. if anything, i'm thinking the ehrlund might be a good mix with the dpa, but ... the dpa is a "real microphone" made by folks who make real microphones.

i think it comes down to dpa>house, pickup of your choice (perhaps mixed with the dpa)>amp.

jeff.
Click to expand...


On the other hand, it might be worth considering as a microphone and mixing with a pickup if you already have a 2 channel front end on your gigging amp. The DPA didn't work for me for that, but if the Erlund did, that could be useful, especially considering the "stay on the bass" factor and the low profile of the thing.
 
#84
Yeah, Chris, that's how I currently use my EAP. I run the EAP into the mic input on my K&K dual channel preamp (the preamp is tucked behind the tailpiece with velcro) and I mix my Rev Solo into the pickup input, and I can mix both signals right there at my bass. The Rev Solo does not have the nice microphone "acoustic" tonal quality that the EAP does, but the Rev Solo does seem to cut through a little better than the EAP does, where I'm dealing with ridiculously poor acoustics, super loud drummer, or outside venue type gigs.

I'm curious, Chris, why didn't the DPA work out for you in mixing a mic signal with your pickup? I thought the DPA's were supposed to be the bomb. Have you gone back to using the Shure Beta 57 mixed with the Full Circle? You really owe it to yourself to try the EAP, I think you'll be hooked. I also have a Beta 57, and I like the sound of the EAP better than the mic, plus you don't have to mix it with a piezo since it goes loud without feeding back, (but it does also work fine when mixing it with a piezo, just like the Beta 57 does).

I would also agree with another poster here who said that the volume to feedback ratio on the EAP is as good or better than a piezo like a Full Circle, Rev Solo, or Realist. It really is an amazing and unique product.
 
#85
richhansen said:
I'm curious, Chris, why didn't the DPA work out for you in mixing a mic signal with your pickup? I thought the DPA's were supposed to be the bomb. Have you gone back to using the Shure Beta 57 mixed with the Full Circle?
Click to expand...

I've been accused of derailing threads recently, so I'll link to a previous answer to this question here. :)

You really owe it to yourself to try the EAP, I think you'll be hooked. I also have a Beta 57, and I like the sound of the EAP better than the mic, plus you don't have to mix it with a piezo since it goes loud without feeding back, (but it does also work fine when mixing it with a piezo, just like the Beta 57 does).

I would also agree with another poster here who said that the volume to feedback ratio on the EAP is as good or better than a piezo like a Full Circle, Rev Solo, or Realist. It really is an amazing and unique product.
Click to expand...

I'll get my hands on one sooner or later, I'm sure. I hope it acts like a mic, but is louder than a mic, and can live on my bass when I pack it up.
 
#86
jrlynch said:
i'm curious about the ehrlund, but comparing it to the dpa is really an apples/oranges kinda thing. if anything, i'm thinking the ehrlund might be a good mix with the dpa, but ... the dpa is a "real microphone" made by folks who make real microphones.
Click to expand...

Totally! The DPA is different to the Ehrlund. I think the Ehrlund is perhaps best thought of as a contact microphone like the Schertler Dyn-B, but from what people are saying it has a much more natural 'mic like' sound. So maybe the Ehrlund is not an Apple or an Orange at all... it might be a Banana.... as Rich says.. "it is an amazing and unique product"

jrlynch said:
i think it comes down to dpa>house, pickup of your choice (perhaps mixed with the dpa)>amp.
Click to expand...

I hear you Jeff :), and I completely agree that a DPA 4099 should be on the bass to give a great FOH sound.... it's just that I am selfish. I have a limited budget and I ideally want my gear to provide an inspiring stage bass sound (and by that I mean hopefully, what my bass actually sounds like acoustically) coming out of the amp next to me so that I am motivated to actually try to 'play' my bass during the gig rather than just going through the motions. So, to be quite honest I don't really give a monkeys what goes out of FOH. If my stage sound is rubbish I will play rubbish - i know because I recorded my direct bass sound on some of my gigs recently and it sounded awful.. I was just thumping away beating hell out of the poor thing. :eek:

Chris Fitzgerald said:
On the other hand, it might be worth considering as a microphone and mixing with a pickup if you already have a 2 channel front end on your gigging amp. The DPA didn't work for me for that, but if the Erlund did, that could be useful, especially considering the "stay on the bass" factor and the low profile of the thing.
Click to expand...

richhansen said:
Yeah, Chris, that's how I currently use my EAP. I run the EAP into the mic input on my K&K dual channel preamp (the preamp is tucked behind the tailpiece with velcro) and I mix my Rev Solo into the pickup input, and I can mix both signals right there at my bass. The Rev Solo does not have the nice microphone "acoustic" tonal quality that the EAP does, but the Rev Solo does seem to cut through a little better than the EAP does, where I'm dealing with ridiculously poor acoustics, super loud drummer, or outside venue type gigs.
Click to expand...

NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!! :) Put it through the backline and get as Rich says... a nice microphone "acoustic" tone.

richhansen said:
I'm curious, Chris, why didn't the DPA work out for you in mixing a mic signal with your pickup? I thought the DPA's were supposed to be the bomb.
Click to expand...

I hate to be presumptious (no I don't really... I love it :p), but you have already told us the answer in one of your earlier posts Rich... the Ehrlund doesn't feed back like a mic. The DPA is GREAT mic but being a mic it will feedback through backline when the gig gets loud.


SO, where does all this nonsense leave me? I NEED to try out the Ehrlund because it might be the answer to all our prayers. If not, then the DPA 4099 is as close as it gets. As luck would have it, both my old Markbass amp and my Warwick FNA 5 string have sold, so very soon I will have the dough for the experiment.

To finish this epic post (sorry for the length.. anyone still reading ??) God Bless Jonas, who has said that if I order either one of the two and I'm not happy with it I can send it back.

AMEN!
 
#88
Rick,
I say quit typing and just buy the thing! LOL.

Seriously, I think you will find that the EAP is the answer to your prayers, or at least the closest thing in existence to it. Just make sure that you spend the time to mount the cable so it doesn't make noise, and spend the time finding the sweet spot on your bass.
 
#89
You're right Rich, the time for typing is over (well nearly!), I'm gonna get together with Laurence on Tuesday and take my bass and my amp and try out how the Ehrlund sounds straight into my Doubler, which finally arrived this morning.. Yippee!

Laurence and I had a good old chat this afternoon about all things bass. We probably could have kept talking all day. I'm looking forward to meeting up with you Laurence :)

Will let you all know how the experiments go... I might try to grab a few sound clips along the way.

Over and out,
Rick
 
#91
Chris Fitzgerald said:
...I hope it acts like a mic, but is louder than a mic, and can live on my bass when I pack it up.
Click to expand...

chris, soundwise it's very close to a mic. but with less feedback, which means you can go louder. much louder. and you can leave it stuck to the top. that's what i do. haven't taken it off in months.

Eric Hochberg said:
What's with this faulty cable? I'd think with all the complaining here Erlund would correct the problem. Has anyone discussed it with him?
Click to expand...

eric the cable isn't faulty. it's just that you hear it whenever the cable touches something. so you need to set it up so that cable is not touching anything. i did that with some velcro strips holding the cable parallel to the TP. see posted pix.

i even got a compliment from göran a month or two back, he saw my pictures and wanted permission to use my photo from TB in this thread. his wife is a violinist and she had a solution for that too. various other solutions will work. it's not a big deal, but maybe göran will find a standard way to do this.
 
#93
Eric Hochberg said:
I just figured that attribute made it kind of "faulty". Wouldn't a better shielded cable lessen that problem?
Click to expand...

I suppose the cable is well shielded, electronically. You need to isolate it physically, which means: prevent it from touching anything, because it's microphonic.
This problem commonly appears with other piezo pickups, too. With some more, with others less. But usually their cables are too short to touch the top or anything else.
 
#95
This afternoon I went to try out the Ehrlund Acoustic Pickup with Laurence (bassadder). I took my double bass (which has a Realist fitted), my new EA doubler, Wizzy 10 and M - Line cabinets. Laurence had brought his bass with the EAP and a Realist fitted. (see picures earlier in the thread for how he's modified and mounted the cable). He was very kind and let me experiment to my hearts content. :)

Before I go any further can I just say that the following is all my humble opinion... Thanks :D

I set up the Doubler with both speaker cabs. Before I got onto the Ehrlund, I plugged in Laurence's Realist to see if the sound was similar to mine. It was almost exactly the same - which was perhaps surprising as acoustically his bass is much warmer and deeper than mine. My experience with the Realist is that it has a pleasing low frequency thump and a good arco sound, but the high frequencies are almost non-existant.

Anyway, onto the Ehrlund....

First we tried the EAP without it's preamp to see if it would work straight into an input on the Doubler. It did work, but even by adjusting the trim pot on the top (with a screwdriver) to maximum and also the main channel gain to full, I could not get enough level to make the channel signal LED light. The sound was good though. I think the high frequencies were reduced slightly (2dB maybe). With Ehrlund's preamp the signal level was much better so we used it for the rest of the testing. The EAP was plugged into CH1 and the Realist into CH2.

The sound: The Ehrlund really does sound like a microphone, but not like a SM57 does when it is rubberbanded between the brdge feet. The EAP doesn't have that horrible 'nasal closemiked' sound, and the top end is MUCH better than a SM57 - the EAP sounds more like a good capacitor mic. When listening to the Ehrlund with headphones on, there were lots of high frequencies, and plenty of lows too, and the mids were probably a bit forward, but we just used the Doubler's mid control to gently reduce them by about 4dB or so and it sounded great. REALLY GREAT. Through the Wizzy 10 and M-line, the Ehrlund sounded like it needed a bit more low frequencies. We could have tried boosting the EQ, but instead we mixed in a little of the Realist. It worked a treat. The two signals seemed to complement each other - the warmth and thump from the Realist and the clarity, sparkle and "I am actually an acoustic double bass" from the Ehrlund.

Laurence told me that at a loudish gig he has felt the Ehrlund didn't cut through very well. I think the EAP blended with the Realist through the Doubler and the Wizzys would give enough punch when needed.

The whole bass seemed to come alive with the Ehrlund.. even when I absent mindedly tapped on the strings with my fingernail whilst chatting that sound actually came out of the amp!! It actually sounded like fingernails tapping the strings!! I was so shocked I tried it with the Realist to compare and I could barely hear a muffled thonk.

Feedback: We had none. No really!! For most of the experimenting the bass was only 4 feet in front of the Wizzy 10 and 8 feet away from the M-Line. We went pretty loud. Definitely loud enough to compete with a drummer. Laurence said that he never plays as loud on stage as we had it for our testing. The Ehrlund is at least as good as a Realist in gain before feedback, yet it sounds like a capacitor mic to me.

SO...

I am going to buy one.

(but should I buy it directly from Goran, or instead from Jonas so I can get one with the cable already shortened??)

Rick
 
#97
Great meeting you today Rick it was very interesting testing the Erlund and Realist pickups with new EA doubler and the Wizzy cabs it really sorted a few things including the Realist sounding virtually the same on both our basses which was quite a shock as our basses are very different acoustically mmmmmm.

There's one thing you mentioned I wanted to comment on.

When I used the Erhlund live it was in to a Mark Bass CMD15 combo (which you used to own too Rick) there was plenty of volume and the pickup moved lots of air however with the Markbass EQ and that 15" cab design I couldn't get rid of a low boom even with the bass and low mid turned right off which made it difficult to hear any real note definition, now with a move comprehensive EQ it would be very usable.

I tried the Erhlund with a friend's RCF 312A powered speaker and it sound fantastic you need a good pre-amp with a lot of gain (80db) to drive the RCF properly but it's the best sound I've had with the Erhlund I could use the Erhlund on it's own and get that mic like sound but in a usable format.

Hope this helps.

Laurence
 
#98
My BP100 started to crap out after I started messing with it so now I'm taking the plunge and ordered from Front-End audio. They called this morning offer connector options so I went with a female 1/4" jack and requested that they shorten the cable while they were at it to 15". Considering that it's only about 6-8" from TP to bridge feet, I should have a little slack. We'll see how it turns out. I'm hoping that my Pro-Plat EQ bass Pre will be enough.
 
#99
I'm curious - where did you mount the EAP on the bass for the test you did? I have been using one for a couple months now and experimenting with various positions. The differences in sound from one placement to another are shocking! Overall I have to agree - the thing sounds just great. So far I think my favorite place is just below the bass side bridge foot.

I'm also interested in your lack of feedback. I've been having really big feedback problems - even at quite low volume levels. I have put a 3 band parametric eq in line to try to bring it under control, which has helped, but really not enough.

I was recently given the suggestion, regarding the feedback, that I may not be pressing it firmly enough against the top when I mount it. Anyone else have that experience?
 
#100
hdiddy said:
My BP100 started to crap out after I started messing with it so now I'm taking the plunge and ordered from Front-End audio. They called this morning offer connector options so I went with a female 1/4" jack and requested that they shorten the cable while they were at it to 15". Considering that it's only about 6-8" from TP to bridge feet, I should have a little slack. We'll see how it turns out. I'm hoping that my Pro-Plat EQ bass Pre will be enough.
Click to expand...

Hey if you've got a gig in the city I'd love to hear you play and find out what you think of this pick up.
 

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