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ELEMENT - CabSim & Headphone Amp by Darkglass Electronics
- Thread starter Peace Bass
- Start date
I am dealing with the topic of cab sims recently and yes, a few questions have emerged since then.
(1) Do cab sims only work or work best in a recording situation? I mean, how authentic does a 15" cab sim sound through a 2x10" bass cabinet when connected to a bass amp or an 18" subwoofer when directed to a FOH system?
(2) Does a cab sim (let us stay with the 15" speaker example) only simulate the sound or other typical characteristics (like inertia) as well? It seems that there are so many factors to consider when buidling/comparing bass cabinets.
(3) Is this (besides IEM and those swiss army knife pedal units) a step towards the hyper portable/flexible bass "rig" of the future?
Thanks!
(1) Do cab sims only work or work best in a recording situation? I mean, how authentic does a 15" cab sim sound through a 2x10" bass cabinet when connected to a bass amp or an 18" subwoofer when directed to a FOH system?
(2) Does a cab sim (let us stay with the 15" speaker example) only simulate the sound or other typical characteristics (like inertia) as well? It seems that there are so many factors to consider when buidling/comparing bass cabinets.
(3) Is this (besides IEM and those swiss army knife pedal units) a step towards the hyper portable/flexible bass "rig" of the future?
Thanks!
1. The cab sim on the Elements only applies to the XLR and headphone outs, so doesn’t affect the output to your amp. So the Cab Sim will get sent to the FOH PA in a live situation or recording interface when tracking.
Accurately representing a specific cab sound is unfortunately more complex than can be fully accomplished by an IR, but they can give enough if the EQ response and some of the spatial characteristics of different cabs that they sound much better than plugging in direct assuming you are looking for the traditional sounds of amplified bass. In the Darkglass world they do a good job of smoothing out the edges of aggressive/ distorted bass tones that can make them more palatable/useable in a band mix and easier for a sound engineer to work with.
2. My limited understanding of IR-based cab-sims is that they can model both the tonal character and time-space response (delay) of a speaker sound, but that’s about it. I think the IR itself is essentially expressed as a sort of reverb/delay algorithm.
3. The future is now! There are tons of guitar/bass players these days using amp-sim/cab-sim/IEM technology completely in place of traditional amplifiers or using them to feed more neutral lightweight monitoring amplification rather than the heavy/hyper-voiced amplifiers we all grew up with.
I’m personally not at that point, but do find cab-sims super useful to send front-of-house in live situations to avoid the unforgiving harshness of the normal in-line transparent DIs that I am often asked to use (since I still rely on the voicing characteristics of an amp/can rig most of the time).
A cab sim functions most predictably when it is fed into a full range flat response system (FRFR). This can be a PA system or a recording DI. If you pass the signal into anything that has a distinctive voice then that voice will layer on the sim signal. Think of the cab sim as an EQ setting that mimics the sound of a cab being recorded by a mic. If you then pass that sound into an amp with a baked in voice and/or a speaker with a baked in voice then you’ll hear those voices altering the sim’s sound.
Some cabs are more voiced than others. A 210 Low-B from Acme is designed to be FRFR. So is the 12” BB2 from Barefaced and the 12” Audiokinesis Thunderchild. So is the 15” greenboy fEarless 15/6. Do all of these sound the same? No. But they’re each reasonably “flat”? Yes. So obviously the driver size isn’t the only determining factor. Playing a BB2 sim IR through a Low B 210 might not sound radically different from the source, though probably a little. Playing that same IR through a Markbass 410 or Schroeder 112 or Ampeg 810 will probably sound more like the cab being used.
Add in the influence of the amp, and the results become less like the original source sound for the IR.
What about amp and speaker sim... do these work for a fully non rig these days?
Have an amp and 4x10 but wondering if I could get by with my effects board running into zoom b2 (set time just amp and can sim) and then a DI?
Have an amp and 4x10 but wondering if I could get by with my effects board running into zoom b2 (set time just amp and can sim) and then a DI?
Yes that would work. Just make sure the PA/monitoring system you're going into allows you to hear yourself. On all but the smallest stages the cab on the stage is really only there for monitoring anyway.
Generally, in a recording environment, it would be better to run cab sim's as an insert so you're not printing the cab while tracking.
Generally, in a recording environment, it would be better to run cab sim's as an insert so you're not printing the cab while tracking.
Yes, that’s what the XLR output is for. There is a neutral setting to use it without cab-sim, or you can send a cab-sim’d DI from your pedalboard, amp preamp, or speaker output of your amp
Thx ..good to know. One of the things I hate with new iPhone is no headphone jack..so the Bluetooth thing takes over. Oh well.
It’s cool that products like this are coming around that support Bluetooth! I personally don’t have an Element, but being able to cut down on extra cables is always a good thing IMO. I personally have a habit of destroying any sort of jack on a phone if I use it regularly, so I’d be inclined to prefer using Bluetooth to not have to inevitably destroy my phone!
Well my Shift Line pre and Atomic Bass Box do not have Bluetooth. Perhaps it should be included in their next upgrades.
It kinda surprises me that the Bass Box doesn’t have that kinda tech for some reason
I just want to chime in since I've been using one of these since it was released. I bought it for practice specifically because of the Bluetooth functionality. That just makes practice so stupid easy. Bass>Element>headphones. Nothing else but a power cable. It connects via Bluetooth to my laptop, phone, or ipad.
But I was actually so impressed with the sound of a few of the cabsims that I decided to put it on my pedalboard for a gig/live concert taping. It was great! Is it as good as the avalon and distressor compressor I use in the studio? Of course not. But does it sound better than the D.I. on my MarkBass head that I've been using for live gigs for years. Yes! It absolutely does! Technology has been moving this way for a while but now I truely have no need for a cabinet anymore. Unless I play a small club, but that wont happen soon.
But I was actually so impressed with the sound of a few of the cabsims that I decided to put it on my pedalboard for a gig/live concert taping. It was great! Is it as good as the avalon and distressor compressor I use in the studio? Of course not. But does it sound better than the D.I. on my MarkBass head that I've been using for live gigs for years. Yes! It absolutely does! Technology has been moving this way for a while but now I truely have no need for a cabinet anymore. Unless I play a small club, but that wont happen soon.
- Apr 15, 2010
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- Spector Artist
A question about the Element - does it have some software possibility to raise the headphone output level? I bought one a month ago but I had to return it cause the phone signal was too low even with maximum master level...
I don’t have an Element, but they’ve recently released a major software update that seems to have resolved volume issues for most everyone else that was having them. They also added MANY new features. Did you update the software on your old unit?
- Apr 15, 2010
- 3,914
- 7,324
- Disclosures
- Spector Artist
Thanks! I even didn't upload the software cause I presumed it was kinda factory defect. Now I downloaded their Suit software but I haven't got the unit any more LOL. So probably I'll visit the DG dealers' shop with my laptop and test it there. If it works I'll buy it.
You may have to update the actual firmware of the pedal as well FYI. The great thing about these digital pedals is that there is quite a bit of adjustability offered in software as long as the hardware itself is up to the task (and generally speaking I don’t think DG skimps on hardware).
Hi all!
Just received a Darkglass Element, my first pedal ever.
Forgive me for this stupid question, but I don’t understand where I have to put the cable, if in “Instrument in - speaker out” or “instrument out - amp in”
I will use this pedal only with the bass and headphones, for silence practice.
So, element —> bass —> headphone.
Could someone please help me? thanks
Just received a Darkglass Element, my first pedal ever.
Forgive me for this stupid question, but I don’t understand where I have to put the cable, if in “Instrument in - speaker out” or “instrument out - amp in”
I will use this pedal only with the bass and headphones, for silence practice.
So, element —> bass —> headphone.
Could someone please help me? thanks
Just got the Element today, the firmware update is a HUGE upgrade! Fixed low headphone output and added an equalizer and preamp feature.
