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Elon Musk as educator

Haven't people been trained in that ideology for millennia?

LOL, yes, you caught me. But let me expand on the idea; obviously we're talking about complex phenomena with lots of variables, and it's not as though all of humanity was once wise and rational and then something went haywire. I think it's probably a universal aspect of humanness that we prefer rationalization to rationality and that our prime motivation is self-justification, as I said.

But I do think that, historically, we are in a phase of culture where these human fallibilities have a particular form and potency. Not that I think "society is getting worse" in some sort of overall way, I don't buy those kinds of rise-and-fall narratives; but each era has its own distinctive character, and it's good to be aware of our own.

(Caveat: per forum rules, I won't discuss religion here, but fair warning, some of the authors whose work I refer to are religious, should people care to go digging and read them for yourselves).

So there's an historian named Robert Tracy MacKenzie who wrote a book called We the Fallen People, about the anthropology of America's founding generation and how that view of humanity shifted since. He argued that the Revolutionary generation that wrote the Constitution etc. had a view of human nature that was not very optimistic; civic virtue was rare and unreliable, people are basically crap whether individually and in masses, and no one could be trusted with power. So the Constitution was designed to prevent anyone from getting too much power and to pit branches of government against each other so that, even with corrupt, self-interested jerks running it, no one would become too powerful and thus the liberties of the nation would be preserved. But, he argues, around the era of Jackson there was a shift: political rhetoric started to have a vision of a virtuous American people, good-hearted ordinary folk who deserved to have their will expressed in government because of how great they were, and the obstacle to be overcome was now corrupt self-interested politicians.

As I said, people's greatest motivation is to feel justified, so this new political anthropology became the norm; politicians routinely flatter voters for what great, decent folk they are who deserve to get what they want from government (whether that's government services, or government leaving them alone). People like to hear that kind of thing. The shift accompanied a big transition in American (and thence Western) culture, from deference to populism.

Here, let me invoke Jonathan Haidt again. In The Righteous Mind, he argues that evolution hardwired into our brains (among other things) two moral sensitivities that can contradict each other. He thinks that before we reached a certain stage of tool-making, deference got bred into us as an instinctive value, to submit to the dominant male of the group. Then, when our ancestors got better at making weapons, anyone could throw a rock or stab with a spear and take out a domineering musclehead, so a new value of equality got bred into us. In a sense, every human culture since has negotiated its own path between these contradictory impulses, some elevating deference as a key value, others egalitarianism, in different combinations.

So, applying Haidt's evolutionary psychology to MacKenzie's reading of history, I would say that we took a swing in the egalitarian direction about the middle of the 19th century, and it's been snowballing ever since. I think it's been amplified all the more in the age of mass media, because the rise of mass media also gave rise to an economy of consumer capitalism. In the logic of consumerism, you should buy all these neat things because 1) they're nice and you deserve nice things, and 2) you are a unique individual and your stuff should express your own special self. (think the entire fashion industry especially for that last one - or, a little more subtly, the tourist industry). Encouraging people to believe these things about themselves encourages them to spend more money in the consumer marketplace than they would if they believed the opposite ("Fancy stuff is not for folks like me," "If I have a roof over my head and food on the table, that's all I need"). The social media world we've been talking about just puts these trends on steroids, that go back to at least the 50s - Alan Noble calls it the "burden of self-belonging," the way a drastic egalitarian individualism drives a person to anxiety and misery trying to maintain a sense of self in the terms of consumerism.

What does all this have to do with what I was saying about rationality and rationalization? This: it has never been the case that humans have been terribly rational. No one has figured out how to make us so. But in the older culture of humility, of a certain pessimism (or realism, perhaps) about human nature, you can foster a sense of deference that may be healthy. It can also be unhealthy, of course, and exploited by tyrants. But a healthy deference can express itself in saying, routinely, "I don't know much about this, so I'll yield to the people that do." And even among those who do, it can lead to a respect for institutions to mediate and create consensus, saying "I know this little piece of the complex whole, but I want to hear what my respected colleagues have to share from their respective pieces."

All the evidence is that this is what our current culture is losing; a willingness to defer to mediating communal institutions. In the burden of self-belonging, we're caught in the dilemma between being special divine sparks who are utterly sovereign in ourselves, and not knowing crap about really important questions. But our instinct is not to defer to the institutions designed for this, but to Google it - the ultimate seeming-egalitarian access to knowledge. We can always "do our own research" until we find something that reassures our sense of self-justification, rather than actually learning. It becomes impossible to actually talk to each other through our differences; instead we just find a bunch of people whose prejudices happen to match ours and batten down the hatches.
 
I've caught some flack here in the past for my views on the subject.
Me too. My house has been Amazon free for close to 5 years now. It’s been hard at times but I’ve never missed out on anything. We shop local as much as possible. I enjoy knowing my union has been a thorn in Bezos’s side here in NY.
 
Me too. My house has been Amazon free for close to 5 years now. It’s been hard at times but I’ve never missed out on anything. We shop local as much as possible. I enjoy knowing my union has been a thorn in Bezos’s side here in NY.

I really want to go Amazon-free, but haven't managed it yet. That's a tough chord to cut, especially with a kid in the picture.
 
We go back and forth on Amazon. We stopped for a stretch recently, but now use them again because they provide us access to some items we can't conveniently locate otherwise.

-Mike

We still use it, but we don't pay for Prime anymore. After the last price hike, which was almost double what we paid a few years previously, we said no more. I don't miss Prime video either.
 
I've posted it often and will continue to do so. We are much better at rationalizing than we are at reasoning, and as far as I can tell the chief human motivation, even more than to feel happy, is to feel justified.

The only antidote I can think of would be a worldview that trains people to assume that they are deeply flawed and wrong, not hopeless but needing change. But that sort of thinking is often considered negativity these days.

I will say, on the encouraging side - one class, for one semester, rarely changes anything, as you've seen. I am more optimistic, however, about the collective effect of an educational experience over time. Not across the board; lots of people get degrees and still never seem to learn critical thinking. ...

I'm autistic and have an MA in philosophy. Critical thinking is a part of my nature. I can't help but question my thinking every day. Logic supersedes my capacity to rationalize, though I still feel that human urge. Often, I act in a manner which some philosophers describe as practically irrational, which is to say my beliefs and understanding are (essentially) correct, but I fail to act accordingly. However, I am generally aware of that and do not attempt to make up reasons, explanations, some sort of false version of reality, e.g. rationalize. This is a failure in action, but not necessarily in reasoning. Call it a weakness of the will, perhaps. Lots more to say about free will, determinism, evolutionary psychology, etc... but I digress.

Some years ago I used to participate in various online forums, making detailed arguments about the veracity of various positions, challenging all sorts of orthodoxy which is based upon poor reasoning, bad epistemology, tradition, etc.... and people would say, "who are you to challenge me with your lofty logical arguments, and why should I accept them?". My response is that logic, particularly logical consistency, and the consistency of one's reasoning with reality, with facts, is what ought to compel them to accept those arguments.

For me, logic and evidence are sufficient to compel my thinking and force it into accordance with logic and reality, and, for me, this power is something I cannot deny, regardless of any desire to believe otherwise. However, I get the impression that neurotypicals may be less motivated by this effect. Reason and evidence compel me. Skepticism and the scientific method are my guide. I have no power to resist that, no freedom to think otherwise. A rational mind accords itself with reality, not the other way around. That's why my set of beliefs bows to facts, to reality.

Logic and evidence are kryptonite for bad thinking, at least for me. How others do not feel this is beyond me.

As far as education, particularly higher education not having an impact on developing rational thinking, there are a number of metrics which positively correlate with higher education which suggest otherwise. I would get into that further, but want to stay well away from prohibited topics. Suffice to say that most scientists, particularly top scientists, do not have belief systems which involve entities beyond the natural world.

As far as Musk goes, I acknowledge his accomplishments and abilities. However, as an individual, he seems narcissistic and far too willing to share ideas, memes, and "hot takes" which tend to be ideological and lack much critical thought, without regard for the broad implications of spreading mis/disinformation. SpaceX may employ the scientific method on an organizational level, but Musk as an individual fails to employ critical thinking and the scientific method to his own thinking, at least as it pertains a slew of issues which are unrelated to his businesses. As such, I would not trust him to have the necessary ethos for running a place of higher education. His personal values are far too self-centered and ideological for him to be qualified for that role. He seems to have disdain for the sort of self-reflective critical thinking that a true educator should employ and teach.
 
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By participating here, I've been granted an exquisite education, one that may have eluded me otherwise. As the planets rotate, we all move on. Nothing stands still, nothing stays the same from moment to moment. Gravity, stout levers, subtle levers, forbidden levers, and time, will move mountains. Don't doubt it.

The levers we choose to employ, or those we leave idle, can work, in either manifestation, equally well towards a more positive outcome. Missed opportunities can run up horrendous debt just as readily overt actions do. Any lever has the potential to do good — some only in their idle state. Check the evidence.

'Education' is the old chestnut, perhaps the reddest of red herrings. Education, for the most part, happens outside our school systems, the primary function there being to teach us how to pass exams, and gain qualification.

Learning, as it stands, real learning, the outcome of a good education, is our ultimate lever, for obvious reasons. That's why some people fear learning, and fear people of learning, and want so desperately to meddle with it: Learning will improve things — for everyone — give people greater cognitive faculties, facilitate genuine progress, greater understanding. We can't have that;)
 
Couldn’t care less about Musk’s ownership of Twitter per se. It’s just that (a) his Freeze Peach shtick is actually quite selective and (b) he often expresses ideas I find abhorrent.

But he’s certainly a successful, rich guy, no denying it.
 
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