Embracing the changes in the music world

[P-oddz]

Rock isn't dead, it's just changed/changing. Either your tastes can change with it or you can get hung up on what you "used to like". It also depends on what you classify as "rock" and whether you are willing to expand that definition. Is rock and roll just a blues-based, 4 or 5 piece with standard instruments or can it also be a 7-piece with two drummers who incorporate microtonal instruments and a jazz flute?

(see King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard:
)

OP mentions band like Zeppelin and Van Halen. Honestly, if bands were doing that today they'd be boring. We've heard that done before. Bands like STP incorporated vocals that blossomed a whole genre of copycat bands doing the 90's "hhhhheeeeyaaaah" vocals that fell to the wayside for good reason.

What's great about the state of music today is that it is easily accessible to ANYONE, ANYWHERE, if you truly want to look for it. You don't have to conform to one of a few giant record labels to get your music out there, and the styles are an amalgamation of decades of influence, varying worldly influence and twists on the common guitar/guitar/bass/drum setup. Not to mention the ability to listen to music from different countries that would've been extremely difficult in the past.

Some bands that are doing rock well (IMO) varying in style and delivery:
Queens of the Stone Age, King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard, Royal Blood, Death From Above, The Black Angels, Minus the Bear, Mister Heavenly, The Dear Hunter, Band of Horses, Zeus (Canada).... I could keep going, but you probably get my point.

They may not look like the old guys in spandex and teased hair doing cocaine kick flips, but they are expanding or keeping the genre alive, IMO.

 

[whatizitman]

I have two 20 somethings and my son is the rocker of the two, so I hear the future every day one band that peeks my interested is a band called Bleeker
these kids are rocking!
So to say the youth aren't strapping on guitars isn't the case, they are and are making some decent music. Would I be even knowing they are out there at 59 I doubt it, but having young people in my home, I am exposed to what is new and still rocking in the world of music. There are a lot of bands that he listens to that just rock the house on a daily another I can remember is Through the Fire they also have well written kick a@@ rock they are offering up.

That's great stuff!

I am 46, and a huge fan of stripped down, zeppelin-esque, melodic, groovy rock. To say the least, this (and countless other bands, I must say) is right down my alley. I love real drums, tube amps, etc...

But let's be honest. This is seriously lacking in originality. It has to be said. The marshall half-stacks in the video? Really? Did anyone hear so much as a smidgen of JCM800 on that recording? Not even close. All show. The first shot in the video is of Chuck Taylors. That pretty much says it all.

When I say rock is dead, this is kinda what I mean. It's truly great that there are tons of musicians and fans still digging this stuff (me included). But we're playing and listening to the basically the same thing that was the new and hot thing for a very short time period, say '65-76, or whatever. It's just been hashed, re-hashed, re-re-hashed over and over again - for over 50 years! The point of popular music has always been what's new. Rock is anything but new.

I don't have any answers, 'cuz I'm to blame as much as anyone else. I would cut off my hands before joining a new country band. And I've never really liked hip-hop (which despite it being considered new here, it's NOT new). I'm too stupid and easily bored to figure out jazz. I will keep playing what I grew up and always liked: rock and americana. Great if some younger kids dig it. But seriously? I didn't dig my parents' music, and I don't expect my kids to dig mine.

If you liked the Bleeker tune, check out Band of Skulls (love them!!).

Here's my current fav, still from a couple years ago:

 

[Honch]

I am just saying this thread will benefit hugely from the Wikipedia exhortation:

"The examples and perspective in this article deal primarily with the United States and do not represent a worldwide view of the subject. You may improve this article, and discuss the issue on the talkbass page"

 

[Honch]

With my former post, I wanted to raise the issue if anyone of us is capable of viewing ourselves from the outside, it's a cath 22 of some sort, we're biting ourselves in the tail. We're not in position, due to cognitive bias, to view this from above and take in all other cultures from countries all over the world. It seems that all posts so far in this thread, has really been in the sort of "club-for-mutual-admiration" vein.

 

[Engle]

I could write a manuscript here......

A couple of things that have caused the downturn IMO:

1. Digital music, streaming, YouTube, etc.
People of a certain age have never heard a good recording, through a good set of speakers, that lasted more than 30 seconds. Nowadays it's.....oh, that was cool, click like, move on to the next cat video. Does any music really sound good coming out of a phone? It's just not valued as much today as it once was. I love the convenience of streaming BTW, but I put on records when I want to listen to music.

2. Playing an instrument is hard.
If you want to be good at it, it requires attention span - see #1 above.

I do have a theory, or rather a hope though that some generation coming up will discover what live instruments sound like again - then fall in love with that feeling. Ya' know like walking into a club and hearing a real horn blowing, or an actual bass drum thumping you in the chest. Maybe even that feeling you get when someone who can really sing cuts through the entire room with one note and gives you goose bumps. You can't get that from some guy "spinning" records on his laptop through a 3.5mm connector, or your iPhone.

Man imagine what would happen of the wifi was down, the power was out for more than a minute, and us humans were taxed with keeping each other entertained!

Sorry for the get off my lawn moment. You can replace me with a playlist and powered speaker now!

If it makes you feel any better, I can tell you my 14 year old daughter plays bass in high school band, jazz band and performance club. She is trying to get her own rock band together because she loves playing live with real instruments. At the same time she does listen to a lot of pop music.

 

[Txnrcr]

What I find interesting is the School of Rock franchise, where kids are taught to play their instruments and put into bands and very quickly do performances. I travel a lot for my job and I see these franchises popping up all over the place. There seems to be plenty of interested among young people. Maybe some of these kids will not just preserve the old but also find new directions. School of Rock

My daughter is in the SOR program. Very talented vocalist and bassist.
Many of the kids in this program become very good musicians, some of the guitarist just impress the heck out of me. Especially at such a young age.
Where will the next generation of rock guitar gods come from? Very possibly out of one of these schools.
It is very interesting that these kids have a real love for the classic rock and metal music they cover. And they share a lot of the views expressed here. They also don't think much of the new direction music is going.

My daughter has a side project going with a group of kids from her SOR. They are all 17 to 18 years old. They started up to play covers for a paid gig at an art gallery.
What was supposed to be a one time thing has blossomed into getting booked for private parties and gigs on a regular basis.

Average age of the audience - 40+
Set list - Zepplin, Journey, Van Halen, Metallica, Iron Maiden, Guns & Roses, Skid Row, etc..

The younger generation may not be into R&R, but the older generations that grew up in the 80's are still very much into it. And while the original artists are getting older and possibly not able to perform live any longer, it gives me hope that these young musicians coming out of the SOR program may keep R&R alive.

 

[Timmy-Watts]

If you make someone feel something by your performance, that's your audience. If that feeling is intensified or more real when you're live, then you're doing well. Regardless of genre.

The good guys who are gigging around here, they engage the audience in every situation. The acoustic cover duos are rearranging songs, are funny, and it's like a comedy/music show. People want to see that. They want to hear songs that resonate with them, but a different way than they have heard it. Even with the jazz folks (I'm primarily a jazz player, they want to hear times they know (because it makes them feel some way they like) but in a way we or anyone else has not done it before. So, the challenge is always being open to improving yourself as a musician, and as a band. In the band, it takes familiarity, a deep knowledge of your own voice, and trust to let the other band members contribute and react, to build something that not only is fresh, but reaches the audience.

 

[ZenG]

By this, do you assume that the current pop hits in no way strike a nerve with the listeners? That is a broad overgeneralisation. Just because One Direction does not appeal to you, doesn't mean their songs do not have some sort of emotional value to their fans.

I mean that there were certain circumstances then that are not in effect now. The post war boomers were coming of age and there was a wave of change in the air.
Not only socially and civilly but also music technology-wise as well as technology itself.

It was all considered "new" and had not been done before.

Sure, no doubt current pop hits strike a nerve with listeners pertinent to what the content of songs means to them at this time.

But imo the content of songs does not hit them or the general public in the same way it hit us at the time back then.

Not only were many songs back then pertinent to social change they were also a kind of "psychiatric" guide, explaining ourselves to us as we grew up day by day.

Whether I like One Direction or not has nothing to do with it.

Imo nowadays the whole playing field is different. Socially,technologically,demographically.

Anyway if you're using One Direction as a shining beacon of the youth of today's mental state...I rest my case.

 

[Mannyinnewyork]

I mean that there were certain circumstances then that are not in effect now. The post war boomers were coming of age and there was a wave of change in the air.
Not only socially and civilly but also music technology-wise as well as technology itself.

It was all considered "new" and had not been done before.

Sure, no doubt current pop hits strike a nerve with listeners pertinent to what the content of songs means to them at this time.

But imo the content of songs does not hit them or the general public in the same way it hit us at the time back then.

Not only were many songs back then pertinent to social change they were also a kind of "psychiatric" guide, explaining ourselves to us as we grew up day by day.

Whether I like One Direction or not has nothing to do with it.

Imo nowadays the whole playing field is different. Socially,technologically,demographically.

Anyway if you're using One Direction as a shining beacon of the youth of today's mental state...I rest my case.

There are so many interesting posts in this thread/topic.

This post is pretty much on the money as far as I am concerned. We grow up in a particular time period (I’m 68 and started playing in 1962) - the political climate, the state of Music at that time the , the state of the world at that time all produce a musical gumbo that some are lucky enough to sample.

I loved that gumbo. I can still sample it today. I prefer it the current offerings.

 

[Chicory Blue]

When the internet happened, the rules pretty much got erased. Music stopped being the slowly-evolving process of cultures sharing their sounds with one another and began to become one massive communal melting pot wherein "music" can be any sound at all, so long as anyone deems it so.

Contemporary genres are the increasingly-blended echoes of the old conventions bouncing around a world that still remembers when convention existed, aided by the technology to more easily blend them. In a few decades, we will be gone, and only those born into an era of unlimited aural possibility will remain, free from the tyrrany of our nostalgia. Our nomenclature will be irrelevant.

When that happens, I wonder if we'll still use the word "music" at all, or if auditory sensory productions will be too deeply integrated with other media to stand alone anymore.

Then, eventually, the world will end, and we will be dust, and we will be beautiful.

--^@

 

[mikewalker]

This is a first... how inconvenient that I have a different view, EXPERIENCE even....this must be more to the exception to the norm. We were rebellious towards our parents.

... If anything, parents were indifferent. "Laissez faire".

I left town at 17 in large part because

1) when I was 15 my parents FORBID me to buy a huge Garnet all-tube bass rig with 18" folded horn (They made me RETURN IT). Took me a long time to forgive them for that!

2) after I got my brother's Acoustic 260, what I regularly I heard from my parents was "stop that dreadful Thumping"...

(This despite the fact that by age 17, I was already the bassist for the University of Victoria Jazz Ensemble)

 

[Josh Gone]

I'd like to make mention of these young folks. The bass player was a senior in high school when this was filmed almost a year ago. All younger musicians, writing and performing original rock music. They just won a local award for "best new artist."

 

[Mildew Jones]

Good topic, Joe! Lots of interesting viewpoints. I am 56, been playing since I was 16, tried the original hard rock band thing until I was about 40, switched to covers, been playing cover tunes since about 2002. I am in San Diego, CA, there are still clubs to play, covers or originals. The Casbah, which was the originals club the post alt/grunge scene thrived in still is booking 3-4 original acts every night, there are CERTAINLY venues for young bands to do their thing in.
I am playing more and making much more $ now than I ever have, I play in a corp. band, a happy hour regular gig and lots of corp. work we get from those happy hour gigs. Music is all over the map; pop/dance from the 60's to current, Motown, some harder rock classics, rap. I also play in a 70's to 90's rock type band, my bros from the original rock days, we play 1-2x a month, mostly dive bars, it's my hang out with my buds gig. I was doing a tribute thing for a couple years, kinda fell out of it due to schedule conflicts, but it's a good gig, plenty or work and good $.
I have 2 kids, son (23) is drummer, thrash metal, there are places to play here, decent crowds, though he thinks they may end up in LA area, as there's more of a scene than San Diego. Daughter (21) is into EDM/electronic stuff...they both grew up listening to Mom and dad's rocker/pop music, my son is into my era's rock stuff, but also listens to a lot of new thrash/heavy stuff. Daughter got into Britney big time around 8,9, then went into a biiig Marilyn Manson phase for a couple years (interesting jump), she then was into the emo/hardcore/i dunnowhatyoucall'em stuff, Bring Me the Horizon, My Bloody Valentine, then she went to electro-dubstep whatever, that's her thing now (she will be working in the industry, booking, artist management is where she's headed).
Soooo, what do I think? I dunno. Things have changed, are changing, the music industry as we knew it is a shambles, will be watching how my son's band is approaching things (making a demo is done, booking is the focus now). And someone did mention, rappers are now the new rock stars...I tend to agree.
MJ

 

[wintremute]

I find many of the theories, insights, personal tastes, and personal experiences in this thread fascinating. I'm really liking the discussion.

However, what I find humorous is the hubris of some people when it comes to "rock and roll". They're treating it like it's the penultimate form of musical expression, and that if it isn't continued the world will be worse off musically. IMO, in the centuries of music mankind has created, it's just another form that we will mostly evolve past. People still write and perform other genres of music that are older (and deader), and they will with rock, too. But the music is going to evolve, and like your parents, and their parents, and their parents, you're probably not going to really like how it evolves, why it evolves, or what it evolves into.

 

[Nev375]

If you really want to embrace the changes in modern music, delete anything on your playlist more than 10 years old and actively start looking for NEW music to replace it with. SERIOUSLY TAKE THE PLUNGE! I actually did this about 5 years ago and need to purge things again. Doing so has taught me a few things about music.

For one, music of today is not worse than the music of yesterday. Rock is just not mainstream, nor as profitable as it once was, but that's an entirely different issue. Things go out of fashion. But there are definitely brilliant musicians and bands that exist. I use things like Pandora and tastekid to find them as well as watching Jules Holland or any other program or youtube channel that caters to new music.

99% of people over the age of 30 are just dinosaurs stuck in the music of their heyday and are simply prejudiced against anything new and unfamiliar. Almost all of you are not as open minded as you think you are. I discovered that I had some narrow-minded tendencies myself. So I thought about that very hard and decided I could either justify my own prejudices or put some effort into repeated listening of some stuff that I didn't like at first.

If you listen to something enough, there's a good chance you will develop a taste for it. That doesn't mean you will learn to like auto-tuned pop. Obviously, if something goes against your core values you are less likely to ever accept it. But if you want to expand your boundaries you HAVE to venture out into some wild uncharted territory, but on the plus side, you can decide which direction you wish to explore.

As for your favorite classic rock? Don't worry. You'll still get to hear plenty of it when you hang out with your friends.

 

[japhy4529]

I think Rock’s not completely dead. Maybe you’re not noticing the rock that’s out there. My daughter went to see Imagine Dragons last week so I just asked her about it. They play rock with bass, drums, guitar, keys, vocals. It was full house at Rogers Arena in Vancouver.

Clearly rock isn't dead, but I agree w/ Joe Nerve that it IS on life support (at least right now - hopefully that will change soon). The real question in my opinion to help determine the continued viability of rock music is to ask the following question: how many bands can still go on successful stadium tours? Okay, so presumably Imagine Dragons is one band that can still accomplish this feat. How many others (true rock bands) are out there? Tool, Foo Fighters, Metallica and Aerosmith all come to mind, and I'm sure there are others. All but ID are older bands. Put another way, how many relatively young bands are headlining stadium tours? Clearly it's not what it used to be throughout the 70's, 80's and 90's. Perhaps this is more of a trend in music touring overall rather than any indication that rock music is on the decline. I do think there is a correlation however.

 

[lbbc]

This.
I'm backing up an acoustic guitarist. We do old Delta Blues material. Small PA, small bass amp. Playing the same types of places as you are, and making out pretty well. A plus is no one around my area plays slide guitar blues. People of all ages seem to love it.

Exactly...find a need, fill it and benefit from it!

 

[Kevin1960]

This is a first... how inconvenient that I have a different view, EXPERIENCE even....this must be more to the exception to the norm. We were rebellious towards our parents.

A recent example:

"Petty also overcame a difficult relationship with his father, who found it hard to accept that his son was "a mild-mannered kid who was interested in the arts" and subjected him to verbal and physical abuse on a regular basis."

Tom Petty - Wikipedia

Do you want me to namedrop all the people who stated the same - basically - in interviews? I can find them for you if you like. There's dime a dozen. You have to take into account, that parents were not wary of the music, but the lifestyle that came with it. You can very well dig out those who's parents encourage them, I don't see it will ending up 50/50 anytime soon. Even liberal Frank Zappa wanted his kids to learn some "marketable skills" that was outside music. I e if music should fail, you should have something to fall back on. If anything, parents were indifferent. "Laissez faire".

Yes, I can see your point in this. Adversity is a powerful incentive in song writing and we can clearly see this through the history of RnR. For many, these were chaotic times and it was reflected in the music that was written in the day. I do think most of the parents were not interested in the lifestyle at all but I do think it worth mentioning that not all of them condemned the music because of it either.
I do remember it being said of The Beatles and Elvis Presley television performances shown on the Ed Sullivan show, that it was reminiscent of live shows of The Glenn Miller orchestra and The Benny Goodman's orchestra in the 30's, & 40's when the young fan's openly danced the jitterbug in the aisles of the theaters they played and swing music was the format dominating the media of their day.
I do think in the times of the last half of the 20th century in America, it was much easier to find fellow musicians to play with as well as the equipment was becoming much more affordable and portable. RnR was at first, a much more easier way to learn about music as not everyone needed to learn to read notation to learn it. It made for a more encouraging atmosphere. What changed the most was mass media and the technology of the times.

 

[Mannyinnewyork]

99% of people over the age of 30 are just dinosaurs stuck in the music of their heyday and are simply prejudiced against anything new and unfamiliar. Almost all of you are not as open minded as you think you are.

Not so sure about this. Not sure where you get your numbers. I can say with certainty that 100% of those under 30 do not know what it was like growing up in the 60s and 70s.

 

[Honch]

Do you know why progressive rock has seen a surge recently? See if you can take a guess.

With young people, I mean.