Embracing the changes in the music world

[JRA]

little richard and chuck berry (and of course, many, many others) helped define R&R and what it was 'meant to be'....and then 'things changed' almost immediately (within a decade).

lamenting that things "are different now" is as human as it gets. but: static kills. evolution wins every time. and revolution can be even better for a 'bump' in the process.

IMO: if your walk to school really was uphill --- both ways --- you should check out the blacksmithing opportunities in your area and drop out of the music game in deference to those that can abide by the exhilaration of change. and if you play(ed) music, in any era = lucky.

i like my 'old-school' stuff, but trying to remain tethered to it seems dangerous on a few levels and boring on the rest of them.

embrace change.

 

[expatmuso]

I agree that rock is dying out, but I don't think it's dead.

The contemporary musical landscape seems suitable for musicians working in small or solo set-ups, like jazz duos and singer-songwriters. And it think people doing original material can carve out a niche and stay independent, maybe a little easier nowadays. Between promoting yourself with social media, and playing small "guerrilla" type gigs, i.e. small coffee shops, living room concerts, busking, etc. there seems room to grow a career. Maybe not a full-time living but a profitable side-job, perhaps. That's kind of the direction I've been going in the past couple of years, and it's been pretty satisfying.

 

[rodv66]

As a high school teacher, I noticed less kids playing rock, but those that do are more committed. Kids are not just picking up a guitar and trying it out. I have several kids who are in bands, or learning to play. Gives a way to connect to a group of kids who are often on the fringes of the student body

 

[socialleper]

There is a lot to unpackage here:

• Rock isn't dead, it has just been pushed to the margins. It isn't that good rock music isn't being made, it is that the audience for it is shrinking, so the avenues for discovery are shrinking as well. As older rocker die off they aren't being "replaced" because there is no avenue for that to happen, not because their aren't musicians good enough.
  
• Self production and distribution is both a boon and a curse. It allows people to create their vision, which is great for them, for unfortunately for the consumer\fan a lot of people's vision are rubbish. Record labels throw away dozens of submitted recordings a day because they can't keep up with the volume, and the quality is so bad, that searching for that one needle in a haystack of needles isn't worth it to them.
• The "change" that one has to "embrace", at least for now, is that music isn't art anymore. It is entertainment; a spectacle. Many of the pop tarts out their start their careers being train wrecks and then becoming "serious" performers after they have grabbed enough headlines. That train wreck is part of the spectacle. The other part is simplified music that is easy to remember and doesn't challenge the listener.
• The other "change" to "embrace" is that we as people that play instruments are no longer part of the spectacle. The singer and their dancers are the only thing that matters anymore. If you want to write, become a producer, but you better learn how to use a sequencer and\or a keyboard. All the background stuff is going electric; automation is replacing musicians as well.
• I guess we need to come to terms with the fact that we are at the end of an epoch. 60 years ago, big band musicians were probably aghast that young musicians weren't interested in the trumpet anymore. Before that, orchestra musicians were aghast that no one wanted to learn violin or piano anymore.
• If you hear something you like, buy it. Merch too. Going to shows doesn't really help because the promoters and venues keep all the money. If they are on Bandcamp, pay a little extra. Embrace the change that we as consumers have had a seriously deleterious impact on music because of our cheapness.

 

[delta7fred]

My current band is 3 old gits playing mainly 60's music (total age 195 years). We have all been gigging since our teens.

We have been together for 4 years and I am quite surprised that we get as many gigs as we do despite the shrinking gig market. I am just about making as much per gig as I was 30 years ago, back then it got swallowed up in the family budget, now it funds my GAS habit.

I feel that we are the remnants of a bygone era, clinging on to the tail end of the live band scene that any time soon could come to an end.

When it does it is probably a good time to hang up my bass and take up some other hobby more in line with my advancing years but until then I will continue to enjoy playing gigs.

 

[EddiePlaysBass]

We are getting old, and out of touch with music the way it is. Clinging to music the way we knew it. It happens time and again.

The big band musicians were complaining about a similar change 70 years ago when sound reinforcement made orchestras obselete. They called rock n roll garbage, and to them, it was.

Exactly.

I doubt teenagers of today or future teenagers will ever get to experience the thrill of listening to pop and rock as I and others did during the years '61 to about '69.

Ears glued to the radio everyday to listen to the latest new song to hit the airwaves. By artists who knew just how to express your inner feelings for you in a way you couldn't.

By this, do you assume that the current pop hits in no way strike a nerve with the listeners? That is a broad overgeneralisation. Just because One Direction does not appeal to you, doesn't mean their songs do not have some sort of emotional value to their fans.

Another 1/3 are just really dumb questions, like "I broke the string on my guitar - now what?"

At least they have a guitar and are playing it. My first band broke up because our guitarist broke a string

There are so many people on this thread saying "I don't like any new bands"

That's really what it comes down to. People don't like what they hear because it sounds different to what they are used to hearing, so they will say: "This is crap" and "There's nothing new anymore, it's all been done" even though they are shutting their ears to what is new. Hiphop has evolved immensely, and pop music in general, too. Metal as it is known today does not appeal to me (I bought the new The Contortionist album recently and am still trying to like it - this incarnation of "metal" does not seem to work for me - but then neither did Manowar).

Is rock dead? Maybe. But music is still very much alive.

 

[petrus61]

Checking the pulse of the current state of rock by looking at billboard charts or your average wedding band setlist can paint a pretty grim picture, but looking at the ground level, rock appears to be as vibrant and vital as ever. I'm just getting back into the world of playing original music, and I see lots of young rock bands playing to enthusiastic audiences of their peers all the time. I don't know if they're just running on the residual energy from previous generations (lots of these kids were in diapers at the time I was just picking up bass), but something is making these young people want to get out and play. There might be a sequencer here or there, but the majority are still using the traditional rock ensemble format: guitars, drums and bass. That tells me that while things are changing, some things are still the same. It has given me new hope, seeing all these younger people making fresh, original rock music, that in spite of what the music industry is shoving down their throats, that they are taking the ball and running with it. It may sound corny, but all of this homogenization and technology may just be feeding the rebellious spirit of rock and roll, strengthening and augmenting it instead of sucking the life out of it. We have a gig coming up supporting a national rock act for a local stop on their tour. This gig was booked at a music venue, for a Wednesday night. No other acts, just them and us. Looking at their music videos and social media, they seem to have a strong following. To me, that means that enough people must care enough to make that possible.

 

[Engle]

I've listened to 3 tracks ... and I can't hear real instrument. Sounds like a Synth bass, synth lead, sequenced drums and some pads here and there so in a word : Katy Perry.

It is no different than any other pop music from today, made with a computer.

I wasn’t at the concert, but my daughter said they actually played guitar and bass live (and she would notice if they weren’t playing). I’m sure they use a click and tracks. That’s pretty much standard in pop shows.
FWIW Radioactive by IM makes a great heavy rock song if you play it with 2 guitars, bass and drums.

 

[Jay Corwin]

I could write a manuscript here......

A couple of things that have caused the downturn IMO:

1. Digital music, streaming, YouTube, etc.
People of a certain age have never heard a good recording, through a good set of speakers, that lasted more than 30 seconds. Nowadays it's.....oh, that was cool, click like, move on to the next cat video. Does any music really sound good coming out of a phone? It's just not valued as much today as it once was. I love the convenience of streaming BTW, but I put on records when I want to listen to music.

2. Playing an instrument is hard.
If you want to be good at it, it requires attention span - see #1 above.

I do have a theory, or rather a hope though that some generation coming up will discover what live instruments sound like again - then fall in love with that feeling. Ya' know like walking into a club and hearing a real horn blowing, or an actual bass drum thumping you in the chest. Maybe even that feeling you get when someone who can really sing cuts through the entire room with one note and gives you goose bumps. You can't get that from some guy "spinning" records on his laptop through a 3.5mm connector, or your iPhone.

Man imagine what would happen of the wifi was down, the power was out for more than a minute, and us humans were taxed with keeping each other entertained!

Sorry for the get off my lawn moment. You can replace me with a playlist and powered speaker now!

 

[Wisebass]

Neil Diamond... I can do a spot-on impersonation of him

pics pics pics pics

oh yeah!

Geezers never die!!!!! Even Neil is on the internet

greetings

Wise

 

[Josh Gone]

Worth noting that there an awful lot of young women picking up acoustic guitars these days. There is one young lady in her early 20's where I live that makes at least 1/2 of her living making music. She's got a pretty amazing voice, so that helps, but the city where I live isn't very big. My 17 year old step daughter, also a singer, picked up the guitar, and banjo, and sat in her room with her phone and figured out how to play them. She never asked me for anything despite my near 30 years experience playing music. My 14 year old daughter, very into Panic! at the Disco, sings like a bird, and aspires to learn piano, guitar, and drums. Don't discount the young girls picking up instruments.

 

[PhatEnd1st]

I'm ALL in favor with "Out with the Old, In with the New". I love Rock N' Roll, Heavy Metal, Techno, Hip-Hop, Jazz, etc. but if you want to be in the game you gotta do something you have never done before. Mixing up styles is all the rage and if you can be a master of the creation you will command the crowd and/or bedroom internet fans. For example, if you are a nasty heavy metal guitarist, try to create or partner with a good EDM artist to create a sick mix of heavy guitar licks with dropping low end bass and EDM beats to support it. MIX IT UP!!!! You will find that the youth will go nuts for it and will have a heart for it 40 years after. Stop complaining. It's our job to create the demand and musical dream world for them. Love, Beam

 

[Clef_de_fa]

There is a lot to unpackage here:

• Rock isn't dead, it has just been pushed to the margins. It isn't that good rock music isn't being made, it is that the audience for it is shrinking, so the avenues for discovery are shrinking as well. As older rocker die off they aren't being "replaced" because there is no avenue for that to happen, not because their aren't musicians good enough.
  
• Self production and distribution is both a boon and a curse. It allows people to create their vision, which is great for them, for unfortunately for the consumer\fan a lot of people's vision are rubbish. Record labels throw away dozens of submitted recordings a day because they can't keep up with the volume, and the quality is so bad, that searching for that one needle in a haystack of needles isn't worth it to them.
• The "change" that one has to "embrace", at least for now, is that music isn't art anymore. It is entertainment; a spectacle. Many of the pop tarts out their start their careers being train wrecks and then becoming "serious" performers after they have grabbed enough headlines. That train wreck is part of the spectacle. The other part is simplified music that is easy to remember and doesn't challenge the listener.
• The other "change" to "embrace" is that we as people that play instruments are no longer part of the spectacle. The singer and their dancers are the only thing that matters anymore. If you want to write, become a producer, but you better learn how to use a sequencer and\or a keyboard. All the background stuff is going electric; automation is replacing musicians as well.
• I guess we need to come to terms with the fact that we are at the end of an epoch. 60 years ago, big band musicians were probably aghast that young musicians weren't interested in the trumpet anymore. Before that, orchestra musicians were aghast that no one wanted to learn violin or piano anymore.
• If you hear something you like, buy it. Merch too. Going to shows doesn't really help because the promoters and venues keep all the money. If they are on Bandcamp, pay a little extra. Embrace the change that we as consumers have had a seriously deleterious impact on music because of our cheapness.

Yeah,

it seems the slow disaperence of electric guitar with huge amp makes a lot of people here fear the worst.

To me music is music and the instrument to make it doesn't matter in the end.

I'm even releive that the rock formula is starting to die because I always find it a little insulting the way a live band is placed with the drum in the back ground, maybe the bass or the keyboard. Then the next row is both guitar or it could have the keys and then in the front row you have the singer... I like instrumental music for this reason, everyone is placed on the same row unless the instrument is really big. Just check out Chick Corea electrik band or Nadishana or Bela Fleck and the Flectone, they are all in the same row, no one is more important for the image... on top of making music that can have a different song structure because you don't have to deal with being a backing track for the singer or solo instrument.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Lead singer in front of a band goes back wwwaaayyy before rock. And those musicians you mentioned are hardly newcomers.

 

[Loring]

Yeah,

it seems the slow disaperence of electric guitar with huge amp makes a lot of people here fear the worst.

To me music is music and the instrument to make it doesn't matter in the end.

I'm even releive that the rock formula is starting to die because I always find it a little insulting the way a live band is placed with the drum in the back ground, maybe the bass or the keyboard. Then the next row is both guitar or it could have the keys and then in the front row you have the singer... I like instrumental music for this reason, everyone is placed on the same row unless the instrument is really big. Just check out Chick Corea electrik band or Nadishana or Bela Fleck and the Flectone, they are all in the same row, no one is more important for the image... on top of making music that can have a different song structure because you don't have to deal with being a backing track for the singer or solo instrument.

I never stood in the background...

Most rock bands bass player and guitar player are front and centre - beside singer.

 

[Ant Illington]

Your input here is essential!!!!!



I started playing music in the 70s. Every decade both music and the industry have changed. This past decade I think it's changed the most. I'm not sure all the ways it has, but some of that change can be depressing - so I thought I'd start a thread where we might collectively be able to identify what's different, what sucks, what's great, and how we might be able to embrace it all.

I'll start with what's bugging me most. While I don't believe R&R is yet dead, it definitely moved to Florida. And its on life support. I work in a HS, and I'm gigging more than I ever have in my life to big crowds of people in their 20s and 30s. I don't see anybody anymore that's into R&R, wants to play guitar or bass, or is even the least bit interested in what the band is doing when we're performing. And we're good. There are no Led Zeppelin or Van Halens any more, no STP, no Greenday. There are no more rockstars. Nothing to inspire kids to pick up a guitar. All the best clubs in NYC are gone and forgotten. Carvin is closing (or closed). GC is rumored to be struggling. OK, I'm bumming myself out...

The good news is it's prime time to reinvent music. The Beatles did what they did in the 60s - somebody (maybe you or me) has their work cut out for them come the 20s! I always wondered what it would be like being the first person to become a pop star in his 70s or 80s . I've still got some time to work at that . We have access since the new millennium to take things entirely into our own hands. We don't need record companies, producers, recording studios, huge bank accounts, or even musicians anymore to produce, market and sell our own music. People under 20 may take that for granted, but I sure don't. With fewer and fewer people strapping on guitars, we also (those of us who stay in the game) have more and more opportunity. At 56 yrs old, I just started making the most money I ever have in my entire life with music.

Bottom line, there is lots for us to keep our heads up about. I'd love to get a discussion going. Dump yer garbage and complaints, and tell us what's great about it all too.

I see what you are saying but I don't think RNR is dying, only its "Stranglehold" on teenagers is. Haha, no pun intended. There are so many choices that it's hard to get a Zeppelin-Styx-Van Halen-whoever-esque concentration of fans for ANY one genre. Yes, some really bad (repetitive, derivitive, lacking-melodic/harmonic and, um, GUITAR SOLOS) music gets those concentrations of fans and some decent music gets those concentrations but people are all over the place more now.

It might also be noted that the vast catalogue of RNR wasn't/isn't exactly genius-level composing any more than Taylor Swift or Kanye is (are they even cool anymore? I cant even keep up nowdays). We just had more rip your face off guitar solos, thundering drums and front men who we wanted to be... usually over repetitive/derivitive music. Yes, there were some outliers like Queensryche (and other, even less mainstream but successful metal variations) but even that is pretty simple underneath the soaring vocals and solos. And they weren't even that big, not big for that long. I bet there are more than a hundred bands doing stuff as "good" as QR. "Bad" music always seems to win the popularity contest- except when we were 8-18- THAT music was truly great! NOT. Some was great. Some SUCKED but we still liked it. Damn, this a rabbit-hole the more I think about it. Glad you have a fun, paying gig.

To those who took offense to Joe's post or got snarky about cover bands. Keep in touch for 25 years...

 

[buldog5151bass]

Singer (or other lead instruments) is common setup with big band jazz, with orchestras, with jazz combos, with ...

 

[bucephylus]

1. Gig availability: at least in the Southwest, absurdly low DUI limits have drastically cut into the willingness of folks to go out to clubs. Also, being politically red, we have decided that huge sprawling cities with negligible public transportation is a good idea. Those two factors combined make operations of clubs, never a lucrative business to begin with, very difficult (in the Japanese sense of the phrase) in this region. Also, I think people are just plain reluctant to go out, due to various perceived risks. All in all, a terrible cultural climate for any kind of nightlife hereabouts.

2. Gear: seems like we solve one problem, but become faced with another right away. We now have thunderously projecting rigs that fit in compact cars; but, we can’t use them anymore because we are moving to ampless backlines. The IEM systems are marvelous. You can sit in your own little world in perfect mix bliss. The bass tone coming out of the FOH is a biamp tone. I perfectly loathe biamp bass tone, because it tends to put a big hole right where good bass tone lives. Possibly in big arena acts where you’ve got the huge array systems etc, this is not a problem. But, the top of the line PA stacks that are practical in clubs suck rotten eggs as bass cabs.

3. Other players: it seems to me that the general level of competence has risen in a noticeable way. I just did gigs over the weekend with the Southern Arizona Symphony Orchestra, which is a primarily unpaid community orchestra. The level of musicianship for a community orchestra is markedly better than when I started playing. I see similar levels of competence in the pop cover band scene. Which, combined with the continued failure of the club scene described above, makes the scene much more competitive.

4. Jazz and Blues: at least here in the Southwest, these are dying art forms. It makes my heart hurt to watch this happen. To me, this is the most significant negative development I’ve seen. An utter rejection of knowing where you came from. The canary in the mine is dying. We will still have music. I can find and play gigs in other genres. But, this is a major disconnect. Massive.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Nor cheaper!

Cost of a decent house in 1970, $35,000. Same house 2017, $500,000.

Cost of a decent bass in 1970, $400. Even better quality bass 2017, $200.

Or something like that .

A Fender Precision in 1970 was $293.50. Today, an American Standard precision is $1,249.99.
That $293.50 from 1970 is the equivalent of $2,470.91 in today's dollars, so yes, instruments are less expensive today.
I used the American P because in 1970, it would have been an American made instrument.

 

[I am Soma]

so im in my early 30s and have been playing in bands since I was 16. this is the happiest ive ever been with the live scene and with music in general. there is so much good music being made and so many ways to access it without these bands having to be on a big label....heck no one even needs distribution deals anymore.

rock and roll isn't my bag but from a heavy/experimental music perspective im in heaven. my last show had a drone act opening followed by two sludgy original bands. big crowd and all nice peeps.

im also seeing lots of young musicians- just not playing the kind of music or even instruments that I used to back in the day.