Emulate an upright?

[donotfret]

I know I've already posted and I don't have anything more to say, but it occurred to me that there is one outstanding example of swinging hard without an upright bass: Jimmy Smith.



Do you miss anything here? I certainly don't.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

pedal to get a strong attack and a relatively quick smooth decay? This might shorten up the long sustain of bass guitar to better match the short sustain of a doghouse. It might be worth checking out. This would be similar to stuffing some foam next to the bridge.

I do exactly this with a Malekko Sneak Attack. Settings and sample are in this thread. The pedal also avoids the issue with foam of losing all overtones and harmonics. I mainly use this with an acoustic bass guitar, but it also works well with electric bass to tighten the sound without negative aspects of foam.

Is there an "expander" pedal for note attack AND decay? Yes: Malekko Sneak Attack

 

[Matthew_84]

Just a question, would a reverb or a decay pedal help at all? I’ve never used one, but I always wondered if they could help.

Also, to my ears, an upright has a bit of a peak in the high mids (though it normally gets drowned out by the rest of the band, but it’s evident to me when I hear upright solos). I’d maybe use a fairly deep EQ pedal to do a nice boost in the 125-250hz range, a good dip after that, and a slight boost (less than the low mid boost) in the 1.2-1.5khz range, and then start to cut again again after 2-3khz.

If you can, applying a slight OD only to the upper mids may do a slightly better job on this. An SA Aftershock pedal would allow you to do this, as well as give you a fairly deep EQ section (if you don’t mind programming the parameters brought a computer or smartphone app).

 

[BassBrass]

I do exactly this with a Malekko Sneak Attack. Settings and sample are in this thread. The pedal also avoids the issue with foam of losing all overtones and harmonics. I mainly use this with an acoustic bass guitar, but it also works well with electric bass to tighten the sound without negative aspects of foam.

Is there an "expander" pedal for note attack AND decay? Yes: Malekko Sneak Attack

Thanks for reminding me of the next pedal I made a note to buy and forgot. I use the Charlie Foxtrot to mimic a synth sequencer, it's seamless. But emulating double bass? I doubt any effect would satisfy. There is always some latency and/or cheese.

 

[BobDeRosa]

I completely agree with all of the contributors here who say that the only way to get the sound of an upright is by playing an upright. It's really difficult to replicate the sound created by a 10 cubic-foot chamber of solid spruce and maple. It looks as if you've already come about as close as you can, and I daresay any pedal will be a waste of money. If you don't want to play an upright, find an instrument you love, use all the upright-emulating techniques, and play the hell out of it, being proud of every note you play.

 

[BrianNYC]

I have a fretless jazz bass special with rotosound tape wounds that sounds very "upright-ish" through the acoustic sim on a digitech element xp pedal I have. I found this by accident because I really only use this pedal with guitars but I was noodling around one day and voila!...Their secret sauce seems to be the EQ blended with the right reverb to emulate the body resonance of an acoustic. I believe this effect also comes as a stand alone pedal with more adjustable paramaters.
I'm gonna make a sound clip today of a walking line with and without the effect to compare them, maybe that would help.

 

[Spidey2112]

Emulate an upright?

Sure...

... Phase One, complete... Phase Two may require more research than One, but at least we got the funding...

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

These threads on making an EB "sound like an upright" always seem to devolve into "if you want it to sound like an upright, play an upright." Well -- duh! On the other hand, there are many valid reasons for not wanting to play an upright. I used to own one. It's not what I want to play now. It's faster, cheaper, and often more efficient to use the instrument you know and get 95% of the results you need. No one will know the difference. Seriously!

As for trends, it's more normal these days to create the sounds you want electronically with a controller or other device. To say the sound ain't worth nothin' unless it's played on a "real" instrument" is more of a preference than an inviolable premise. One of the most popular threads on the double bass side of TB is about a pedal that lets you record your mic'd sound, then electronically reproduce it while you're playing the DB through amplification to avoid feedback -- achieving the ultimate goal of "my bass but louder." Those cats are AMAZED at the results. I believe they're just beginning to grasp that altering your setup electronically can be a good thing and expands musical possibilities.

So to the OP, I hope you're able to triangulate on a solution that works for you. It's OK to talk about these options. In the end, it's all about the music. How you get there -- well, that's up for discussion!

 

[AboutSweetSue]

This was my first thought. The videos of the kala u bass online don’t do them justice though so I think a lot of people dismiss them without serious consideration. I never seriously looked at them until i happened to catch a guy in a cover band using one and got to hear and feel the beefy tone it has. I was actually very impresse

I’m probably going to pick one up eventually. I’ve been trying to emulate the upright tone for years. It’s improbable to a high degree that it’s ever going to happen for me. I can’t justify throwing the money at the issue, so a foam mute and flats with EQ and compression works well enough.

From my own experience, the Kala is as close as you can get, short of electric uprights. It does look rather ridiculous at first, but the looks are quickly dismissed when you hear the sound. It’s like that pos car that has a monster engine under the hood. That alone gives it its own sort of satisfaction.

 

[brianrost]

I play both BG and DB. I eventually stopped playing fretless BG altogether, I do have one EUB which is only used for traveling gigs where there's no room for a real DB in the car. On some BG-only gigs I will go for a DB kind of sound.

The most important thing is to use flatwound strings. The zing of roundwounds destroys the illusion.

The next is to mute notes to emulate the thump and quick decay of the DB. There are many types of muting strategies which have been mentioned here. If not using the palm mute method, try plucking the strings up by the end of the neck. You will actually see this in many videos of players up until the late 60s, even JPJ from Led Zeppelin.

Even pick players back then tended to pick closer to the neck (JPJ with a Bass VI).

Today, it's more common to pluck or pick close to the bridge which is not possible on a DB. Use the edge of your plucking finger rather than just the tip (watch videos of DB players to see this), more meat on the string gives a fatter tone...raising the action helps here.

Finally, play lines like a DB player would. Listen to jazz recordings with Bob Cranshaw on BG (he also played DB so you can actually compare his sound on each axe).

 

[JRA]

I'd suggest not to try. Not even the electric upright gets completely close to the sound of an acoustic bass, because all those body resonances and even more so the air cavity resonance are missing. But you know what - I don't find it desirable either. What you should go for is a good swing feel on your instrument.

the only way to get the sound of an upright is by playing an upright.

These threads on making an EB "sound like an upright" always seem to devolve into "if you want it to sound like an upright, play an upright."

"devolve?" like using a hammer instead of a cordless drill to drive in that nail?

I guess the simple solution I was looking for just doesn't exist.

play lines like a DB player would. Listen to jazz recordings

your EB may never sound just like a DB, but the space it occupies in the ensemble can be virtually the same with a little technique and attitude.

if it was easy to get a DB sound with an EB = you'd see more tort in the symphony string sections.

 

[BigBear77]

Low gain OD + low pass filter.

Low gain OD, is that to simulate the gain stage in most upright pizio/transducer pickup packages?

 

[bherman]

I play both BG and DB. I eventually stopped playing fretless BG altogether, I do have one EUB which is only used for traveling gigs where there's no room for a real DB in the car. On some BG-only gigs I will go for a DB kind of sound.

The most important thing is to use flatwound strings. The zing of roundwounds destroys the illusion.

The next is to mute notes to emulate the thump and quick decay of the DB. There are many types of muting strategies which have been mentioned here. If not using the palm mute method, try plucking the strings up by the end of the neck. You will actually see this in many videos of players up until the late 60s, even JPJ from Led Zeppelin.

View attachment 3165989

Even pick players back then tended to pick closer to the neck (JPJ with a Bass VI).

View attachment 3165990

Today, it's more common to pluck or pick close to the bridge which is not possible on a DB. Use the edge of your plucking finger rather than just the tip (watch videos of DB players to see this), more meat on the string gives a fatter tone...raising the action helps here.

View attachment 3165992

Finally, play lines like a DB player would. Listen to jazz recordings with Bob Cranshaw on BG (he also played DB so you can actually compare his sound on each axe).

There's a lot of good info here. I play both DB and electric (mostly DB these days) and the closest I can get to an upright sound is a Turner Renaissance fretless with well-broken in TI jazz flats. With my right hand I can control/limit the amount of sustain. And if I'm trying to make the fretless sound like DB, I think about playing lines like I would on the DB. More open strings, pull-offs, etc.

 

[BobDeRosa]

View attachment 3165992

Finally, play lines like a DB player would. Listen to jazz recordings with Bob Cranshaw on BG (he also played DB so you can actually compare his sound on each axe).[/QUOTE]

Excellent idea!

 

[BobDeRosa]

Just a reminder that this is the Effects forum, so answers along the lines of “get an upright” aren’t helpful and are way off topic. OP is asking specifically about effects, for bass guitar. I had a similar response a while back when I asked about an effect to get a bowed sound. You guys need to assume this guy has thought about an upright and for whatever reasons isn’t able to use one, and is looking for just an effect in the effects forum. Or read the rules about effects bashing. It’s way off topic and muddies the thread with unhelpful responses.

I didn't even notice that before I posted. I was just responding to a new post. Sorry about that.

 

[TNCreature]

NS Design WAV Bass Guitar - Matte Black

I have one of these and with flats, on the piezo pickup, it is so extremely close to an upright sound.

 

[MrMoonlight]

Here's what I did to solve a similar problem. Nobody's suggested this yet, so here goes...

I wanted to get more of an acoustic DB sound out of my EUB for times when transporting the big doghouse wasn't practical. I picked up a Zoom A3, which is primarily a pedal for acoustic guitar to emulate different types (I also play guitar), but I noticed it also has an emulation setting on it called "Upright Bass". So I tried it out with my EUB. Using this setting and adjusting the EQ a bit as well as adding and tweaking the "Early Reflections" reverb setting to simulate resonance of a hollow body and a touch of compression, it emulates an amplified acoustic upright sound really well...so that someone who wasn't an upright player themselves would be hard pressed to tell the difference with their eyes closed. And in a live band mix, it's even more difficult to tell.

Happy with the result, I took it a step further and tried it with my fretless P-Bass. I had to tweak the settings a bit from the ones I used for the EUB, but I was able to get a pretty convincing doghouse sound for practical purposes. Sure, you'll never get an electric bass guitar to sound exactly like an upright, but for performance purposes in a band mix, it'll get you surprisingly far into the ballpark. I'm extremely satisfied with the results and discovering this pedal for use with a bass has saved me from having to drag my upright to certain gigs, because it gets me "close enough for jazz", as they say.

I think Zoom discontinued them sometime last year, but you can find them on Reverb or ebay pretty regularly and some places still have a few NOS still lying around if you'd rather buy new:

 

[Booty Shaman]

Tape wound strings, Rob Allen Mouse.

 

[whamni]

Have a look at this, but I think the make of bass in this clip helps a lot

 

[dreamadream99]

Here’s how I get an upright sound on my electric:

• Play over the neck
• Use fingers 1 and 2 simultaneously, and pluck on side of fingertips
• Add a little reverb and delay
• Add a very slow chorus with narrow depth to simulate the bloom.