Enduring designs.

[Pings Bass]

70 years hence and we're still entertained by 4 chord songs played on 4 bass and guitar models.

I think in both cases (rock music and electric guitars and basses) the paradigms endure due to simplicity. Nobody's picking up dad's oboe and playing Bach without serious instruction and discipline.

But any motivated kid can learn a couple barre chord shapes on guitar and start a band.

As far as the instruments go, if the design works, why mess with it? Like, what rock music can't you play with a P or a J, or a strat, tele or lp?

 

[Bass V]

You neglected to share what those 2 un-boring basses were.......??
Please and thank you.

oh, trust me, I've shared!
they're both vintage to the max but I had to wait til recently to have Epiphone create them.
along with a number of cool retro vibe 4 stringers like the Casady and Woody, they knocked it out of the park with their basic Std. IV Thunderbird and set neck Explorer, both are visual stunners and sport the newer superb slim necks. the Ex has 2 extra frets which makes a huge difference and tho sharing the same great PUs their differing placements make the Ex even woolier, so I'm extending the honeymoon. I touted my Ps highly until these killers showed up.

 

[58kites]

oh, trust me, I've shared!
they're both vintage to the max but I had to wait til recently to have Epiphone create them.
along with a number of cool retro vibe 4 stringers like the Casady and Woody, they knocked it out of the park with their basic Std. IV Thunderbird and set neck Explorer, both are visual stunners and sport the newer superb slim necks. the Ex has 2 extra frets which makes a huge difference and tho sharing the same great PUs their differing placements make the Ex even woolier, so I'm extending the honeymoon. I touted my Ps highly until these killers showed up.

The Casady Bass, the Alan Woody Bass and the Epi Embassy all sound awesome in the Youtube clips I've heard.
I put a Thunderbird pickup in one of my Peavey Fury basses to get Thunderbird sound with no neck dive.
The trim ring is glossy black now so it looks a little more normal than the big polished ring.

 

[Bass V]

The Casady Bass, the Alan Woody Bass and the Epi Embassy all sound awesome in the Youtube clips I've heard.
I put a Thunderbird pickup in one of my Peavey Fury basses to get Thunderbird sound with no neck dive.
The trim ring is glossy black now so it looks a little more normal than the big polished ring.

Epi may be the most prolific of the modern Asian market for usable / rea$onable basses, only the SG EB-0 model disappointed me in feel, I'd like to see a long scale set neck reissue.
your after mkt. TB PU is the normal type, the pair in these newer Epi's are much different, purists will sneer but I dig'm and some 'Bird flavor can be dialed in. I love Peavey necks, great TONE, and pitbulls!

 

[58kites]

Epi may be the most prolific of the modern Asian market for usable / rea$onable basses, only the SG EB-0 model disappointed me in feel, I'd like to see a long scale set neck reissue.
your after mkt. TB PU is the normal type, the pair in these newer Epi's are much different, purists will sneer but I dig'm and some 'Bird flavor can be dialed in. I love Peavey necks , great TONE , and pitbulls!

The ChinaBucker T-Bird pickup I bought was from the guy in Taiwan who makes and sells them directly.
They are very well respected over in the long standing TB Thunderbird thread.
Lots of people were buying them before Epiphone finally re-did the Epiphone T-Bird pickups (and bridge) into the awesome-ness they now are.
And yay for Pitbulls!

 

[Deleted member 271037]

Because Leo got it pretty much right first time, stole a march on others, which weren't anywhere near as useful, and pretty much defined electric bass.

Now, many small builders enhance Fender builds and the market is so big there is room for both.
No need to try and re-invent the wheel.

To be precise he got it right the third time.

The first was the single coil Precision which is more of a niche instrument these days.

The second was the split coil with the raised pole pieces under the A-string. Not very popular today.

The third was the model we think of as a classic P-bass today.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

The Fender Precision and the Fender Jazz endure for two fundamental reasons:

1. They established early what anybody would/should expect of a good solid-body electric bass.
2. Despite Fender itself making various renditions of them, they have remained essentially the same throughout the history of the solid-body electric bass.

The Fender Precision and the Fender Jazz endure for two more reasons:

1. Fender has never canceled or radically changed either base model. If they did, culture does not know. The vast majority at any gig neither know nor care if what looks like a Jazz Bass base model actually has an active circuit or more than 20 frets on the neck.
2. Most other instrument makers have been imitating the Fender Precision and the Fender Jazz for years and made money from people who keep purchasing them. This creates a first-glance validation of Fender Precision and Fender Jazz basses as the standard to follow as well as reinforcement of their perceived value. Similarly, Honda Shadows and Yamaha Viragos, despite providing equal or higher value as motorcycles, reinforce perception of the Harley Low Rider as the higher-value ideal.

Related: I once considered purchasing an Ibanez SR-1300 bass. I told myself that when my savings made it to a certain level I might buy one. I had it on my RADAR for a couple of years before I got serious. Then I discovered that Ibanez had stopped making SR-1300 basses. I didn't want to buy one used if Ibanez no longer believed in that model enough to have kept it available new. Fender would never send such a signal to the market. Hence the endurance of the P and J models.

Ibanez SR series still exist though. They've been a classic for over 30 years now. Sure, they've evolved a bit but current SR models still have more or less the same vibe as the old ones. A new model number often just means a new color with the SRs. I think we can safely assume that Ibanez DID believe in the SR series and still do so.

 

[J Wilson]

One cold, rainy, and gray day, my grizzled old music store manager glumly stared out at the weather over his cold coffee and said "No matter what, as cool and hip and modern as musicians think they are, they're gonna play the same handful of guitars and basses their dads or even grand-dads did, till hell freezes over".

And despite those that don't there's still more than enough that do to where you could bet any amount of money on it . . . And laugh all the way to the bank.

 

[mike buzzetti]

its wires with a magnetic coil on a piece of wood ! the rest is just modifications .

 

[India_Sierra]

In almost an hour of viewing so far I’ve seen many short clips. The instruments I’m seeing; 2 Jazz basses, another that might have been a Yamaha or perhaps some kind of boutique bass played by an older player by the way and the rest were ALL Precisions, seemingly unmodified in the hands of young players.

I know that talking about the dire state of modern music is often reductive and circular. I suppose it all depends where you look and what you're looking for. Middle of the road music is often played on middle of the road instruments. Middle of the road players look for middle of the road instruments. Conservative players make conservative gear choices. The trend for vintage gear and old fashioned designs isn't going to go away, but there is plenty of good gear out there being used, you just have to look for it.

 

[ctmullins]

Yeah, my Fender is not my favourite bass but that’s the one I’m taking if a flight is involved.

I’m usually pretty critical of Fender. But yeah, I’d agree with this.

Why? Because a Fender is an expendable commodity. Every town in the civilized world has at least a few available.

 

[GreyBeard]

If you are a sound tech, what bass are you gonna have the most experience with? If you are a bass pedal designer, what would be the 1st bass you would test your product with? Fender pbass

 

[retslock]

despite GASing for decades the Fender / Motown / P sound was it for me from day 1 until I became obsessed with the Bruce / Pappalardi mudbucker thing and eventually I found the perfect blend in 2 un-boring basses, but do retain my favorite P (non-Fender and not boring) cos it's so good.
the flip side, as soon as I see a REALLY cool P I kinda want it lol they were my first dream bass.

My story isn’t all that different from this. The P was the one for me from the start although Gibson had a couple that caught my eye but seemed out of reach. They weren’t so visible in the stores where I lived. My first decent bass was a very cheap P with a stripped truss rod that I got fixed. I still have that bass and it still does very well, everything it was designed to do. While I still love the P shape (I suspect you don’t and that’s fine) I’ve moved to 5 strings and Fender don’t make one that suits me.
I made a couple that do, using non Fender style pickups but still essentially after the style of the Precision. I do own a really nice Ibanez SR655. Different in body style but still in the Fender ball park with a P/J pickup configuration.

 

[Mastermold]

I've always liked Fender Precision basses, even before I played bass I thought they looked cool.

 

[Bass V]

I still love the P shape

did somebody say 'enduring'?

 

[Snert]

Related: I once considered purchasing an Ibanez SR-1300 bass. I told myself that when my savings made it to a certain level I might buy one. I had it on my RADAR for a couple of years before I got serious. Then I discovered that Ibanez had stopped making SR-1300 basses. I didn't want to buy one used if Ibanez no longer believed in that model enough to have kept it available new.

I laughed really hard at this. Until I realised you were serious.

Look at any given Fender model. Every couple of years that particular variant changes to some degree and is given a slightly different name. Ibanez SRs aren't much different. The core design has been around for maybe 3 decades and it's changed in terms of finish and sometimes pickups, but even these tend to go through fairly long runs before being changed in many cases. I have half a dozen SRs here right now, and I doubt you'd be able to pick between them blindfolded by touch alone; the necks and bodies are pretty much identical in shape and profile and mine are from '01 to '22, the last one is new and a week old. I've also owned earlier models.

Pickups change but many have used the same Barts for a long time. Higher order models sometimes have Nords or Aguilars, but higher end Fenders often have different pickups even if they have the same shape compared to the lower end Fender, not Squier labelled models. There are endless discussions here about the differing tonal qualities of these pickups. Then we can get into the discussions about the maybe 3 dozen finished FMIC have used over the years and endlessly regurgitate...

 

[Snert]

I’ve been watching video today from a recent festival in Australia.

Splendour In The Mud?

The instruments I’m seeing; 2 Jazz basses, another that might have been a Yamaha or perhaps some kind of boutique bass played by an older player by the way and the rest were ALL Precisions, seemingly unmodified in the hands of young players. Of the guitars; one Les Paul several Strats and a few Mustangs or similar.
There’s no danger that the tried and true designs that do the job well are being passed over by young musicians or that guitar bands are dead. They’re alive and well and for whatever reason that you may or may not night like them - they’re not going away.

I'm seeing a real retro trend amongst the younguns at the moment anyway. Look at LPs; they're cool to them but I've yet to find one who knows how to set up a TT correctly so it's good that it will likely be a waning fad with most as their LPs are likely to be dire in the future.

I don't like FSOs much for aesthetic and ergonomic reasons, but I hardly want them to go away. I just like that I, as well as the young people you see on stage have the opportunity to choose other things. When I first started it was Fender, some decent Ibanezes (and maybe other Japanese brands like Aria and Westone etc) or really cheap junk, so it's no surprise they you have a particularly high regard for FSOs as that's what you grew up watching and lusting after. I did until I played other basses I preferred.

In decades of playing, I've never had a sound person, stage or studio tell me to use a P. If they did, it would likely tell me they're lazy or incompetent, because if you wish to get the best performance from me, I should play my favourite axe and the SG do his job by making it work.

The whole "Leo got it right first time" meme is laughable as he went on to make MM and G&L.

 

[M.R. Ogle]

The P Bass was the first. It’ll likely be the last. Everything in between is just a modification to that original design. I’m happy with that and have come to terms with the concept that innovation really doesn’t play that big of a role with our small group that is known as “bassists”. Rock on!

Yes, and there are a LOT of areas of musical instruments that are that way. Violinists, piano players, most woodwind instruments... all have their nearly "final form" in the minds of those groups of musicians, don't they? I don't think they're anxiously anticipating seeing carbon-fiber clarinets at the next NAAM? Innovation in the instrument's form is not really required, just perhaps in evolution of manufacturing techniques.

PS. We still use quarter-inch phone plugs. Last devices on the earth to still use these antiquated connectors. That should tell you something, LOL!!!

 

[retslock]

Splendour In The Mud?

Spot on.

In decades of playing, I've never had a sound person, stage or studio tell me to use a P.

Ditto. Not ever.

 

[el murdoque]

Yeah, doesn't mean they do not sell and are popular.
You and me both, though. Even though I do enjoy some.

I bought a Fender P bass (and had flats installed) so I can start sentences with "I own a Fender P bass, but..."