Envelope filter before or after compressor?

[BurtMacklinFBI]

So I’m working with a new envelope filter and figuring out where in my signal chain I want it. I’ve already decided I prefer it before my dirt pedals. Compression, though... on the one hand, going before the compressor gives me more dynamic control over the effect. On the other hand, being before the compressor causes the filter’s volume control to interact with the compressor in ways I’d rather it not.

What do you all think? How do you have an envelope filter set up on your board, and why?

 

[cardinal]

I have it before the compressor, which I have last in the chain. There are a few things that I don't like interacting with the compressor, so I just click it off in advance. At least to me, the compressor isn't so noticable that it's a big deal to click it off a few seconds before I engage the other effect.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

Filters are very responsive to your attack and right hand technique. To get the "color" of the filter use the comp after to prevent peaks or huge bumps in volume.

Imo

 

[bassbrad]

Before the Comp, to my mind Filters and Comps are an either/or not a both, now having a limiter after a filter is a real Uh Huh!

 

[cosmicevan]

Try both and see what sounds best. Its all really based on what compressor and what envelope and what your settings are for each. If your compressor is squashing the signal you'll have minimal dynamics to work w on the filter...similarly if you filter threshold is too high or low you'll get only filter or no filter. It also depends on what else is in between and what it does to your signal.

On my main board I start w an EBS multi-comp and that feeds into a 3Leaf chromatron to great effect. On a little travel board Ive been messing w I have a Broughton Monocle feeding into a WMD Protostar...they dont play nice together unless I have an octave and/or distortion on in which case it sounds real nice.

 

[Sunset Shalom]

I would say put it after for limiting and before for compression.

I like having a mini comp first and last to suit different situations. Personally I probably run comp after more often as a limiter to smooth out any peaks from loud dirt + sensitive filter.

 

[Vinny_G]

I prefer to put it after, because I like it under control, regardless of my playing style. The effect becomes more regular and the notes come out more easily. I do the same with Octavers for a similar reason, because tracking is better. But in fact, it may depend on how you use your compressor, as dynamic smoothing or as a limiter. And maybe our opinions should not count in your decision.

 

[BurtMacklinFBI]

And maybe our opinions should not count in your decision.

Well, I don’t mean to come off like I’m taking a vote. I’ll ultimately do what sounds and feels good to me. I’m curious about how other players do this though. Maybe I’ll read something that’ll give me a new perspective.

 

[Doctor Bass]

I too have the compression after the envelope filter to control the spikes that can get quite loud and annoying. EFs are very dynamic sensitive and can sometimes get a bit unpredictable in a live setting, so I find lighter compression or even straight limiting quite helpful. Of course, experiment as effects vary greatly within type and result may vary!

 

[BurningSkies]

I prefer mine before. I know some people love that envelope filters are dynamic creatures, but I'd much prefer to have my trigger consistently no matter how you're feeding it.

 

[Chrisk-K]

You never want to filter compressed sound.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I've done both and I think it's largely based on how heavy you have the compression set in both ratio and output. It also depends on how sensitive your envelope is. You can put the compressor before the envelope and get most of the effect with a lighter touch than if there were no compressor. If you're more ham fisted, put the compressor after the envelope to keep it under control.

 

[40Hz]

I’d probably put the compressor after the envelope.

But there are operational differences among the various brands of envelope filter. And there are different types of compressors for different things. So try it both ways and see what works best for your requirements. There’s no right or wrong in pedal order beyond what your ears think is correct.

 

[TonyP-]

I put my on ‘after’ the comporessor.

 

[kleinenenten]

For me, depends on heaviness of compression. I use light compression to add a bit of zing to my flats, and it actually helps my filter to respond a little better. There is little to no difference in “feel” with my compressor on, just a bit of sustain and zing for my flats. I’m likely in the minority here, though, admittedly I feel that I need a bit of help getting my flats to respond to the filters without going overboard. You’ve stated your preference, but I prefer filters after dirt because that really brings out the filter’s voice in my rig. I have to dig in much deeper without dirt engaged to get the filter to open up.

That all being said, filters have been one of my toughest effects to find since I want one that is vocal, but not harsh, doesn’t lose volume, and has to do that while handling clean, OD, fuzz, and distortion, all while not having to tweak knobs. Good luck on your quest!

 

[coyote1]

It depends on the comp, and on how you use it. I use (on guitar) a Wampler Ego comp, and the way I have it set does not at all change the dynamics of the pick attack - so the envelope filter reacts fully to my pick even though it is after the comp in the signal chain.

 

[BurtMacklinFBI]

For me, depends on heaviness of compression. I use light compression to add a bit of zing to my flats, and it actually helps my filter to respond a little better. There is little to no difference in “feel” with my compressor on, just a bit of sustain and zing for my flats. I’m likely in the minority here, though, admittedly I feel that I need a bit of help getting my flats to respond to the filters without going overboard. You’ve stated your preference, but I prefer filters after dirt because that really brings out the filter’s voice in my rig. I have to dig in much deeper without dirt engaged to get the filter to open up.

That all being said, filters have been one of my toughest effects to find since I want one that is vocal, but not harsh, doesn’t lose volume, and has to do that while handling clean, OD, fuzz, and distortion, all while not having to tweak knobs. Good luck on your quest!

Yeah, I play rounds with a pick so I have kind of the opposite issue, I have to be careful not to over-trigger the filter. I think I’ve found a filter that works well for me in that regard though, before or after compression (Desth By Audio Deep Animation).

I feel you regarding dirt positioning; putting the filter after dirt makes it easier to get that really raucous Cliff Burton squawk. I put my dirt after my compressor though, and putting the filter after both compression and dirt takes away too much dynamic control for me. Again though, rounds with a pick. The last thing I need is to feed the filter more.

 

[roller]

+1 on what most have chimed in with

Envelope filter THEN compressor.

 

[kleinenenten]

Yeah, I play rounds with a pick so I have kind of the opposite issue, I have to be careful not to over-trigger the filter. I think I’ve found a filter that works well for me in that regard though, before or after compression (Desth By Audio Deep Animation).

I feel you regarding dirt positioning; putting the filter after dirt makes it easier to get that really raucous Cliff Burton squawk. I put my dirt after my compressor though, and putting the filter after both compression and dirt takes away too much dynamic control for me. Again though, rounds with a pick. The last thing I need is to feed the filter more.

Yeah, I am definitely NOT going for subtle. Just not speaker destroying, either! I’d say I aim for Geezer-ish tones.

 

[Vinny_G]

Yeah, I play rounds with a pick so I have kind of the opposite issue, I have to be careful not to over-trigger the filter. I think I’ve found a filter that works well for me in that regard though, before or after compression (Desth By Audio Deep Animation).

I feel you regarding dirt positioning; putting the filter after dirt makes it easier to get that really raucous Cliff Burton squawk. I put my dirt after my compressor though, and putting the filter after both compression and dirt takes away too much dynamic control for me. Again though, rounds with a pick. The last thing I need is to feed the filter more.

I do exactly this: Pick - RWSS strings - Comp - Dirt - Filter. Because for that raucous Cliff Burton squawk, or Bootsy's hyperspace funk, you don't really need much dynamic control. On the contrary, you want an even trigger.