Epic Fight: Mesa vs Bergantino!

[spector_boogie]

Mesa amp + Berg cab for me.

Mostly because the Berg amps are harder to find used and didn't need everything the Forte HP offered. It looks hella awesome though. One day!

 

[lomo]

..IMHO....no significant difference in quality or tone...I give Mesa the edge because of the warranty, and the greater variety of their amp line.

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

To swipe a TB term: "Bergantino and Mesa and two separate flavors of Great."

I own older versions of cabinets from
each brand, and IMO they're incredibly good.

I'd say the Bergantinos that I own (HT210 and HT115) are better suited for cleaner styles of playing, but I've played quite a few Rock gigs with mine, and they never disappointed me.

I own a pair of Mesa Powerhouse 212s and a Powerhouse 610. In my opinion, these cabinets can cover the most aggressive styles of music, and with a bit of EQ, they can also sound very smooth and accurate.

I've never owned a Bergantino amplifier, nor have I owned a Mesa amplifier so I can't comment on them.

 

[pfschim]

I voted Mesa amps and Bergantino cabs just because that's what I have happily used for the past 7-8 years.
When I went to audition my CN212, I did try out the B|amp, but I found its UI kind of off-putting. I'm sure its a great amp because Jim B certainly has made a major commitment to great bass gear (and of course many TB members sing the praises of the Berg amps).

That being said, I have a hard time imagining a much better bass tone than what comes out of my Walkabout or WD800 into either a CN212 or NV212t. So nice!

of course all of this in IMO/IME only .... and I'd happily go with the idea that Mesa and Berg are just 2 different flavors of great!

good luck OP, probably can't go wrong with any of the choices in your poll.

 

[Al Kraft]

That being said, I have a hard time imagining a much better bass tone than what comes out of my Walkabout or WD800 into either a CN212 or NV212t. So nice!

+1...this is a magic combination, especially the WA and CN212.

 

[pfschim]

+1...this is a magic combination, especially the WA and CN212.

yes, indeed .. as I have agreed with often ... but ... I have to say that during the pandemic I have switched to using the NV212t way more than the CN212, especially with the Noble/Walkabout pre/amp combination. This has become my bass tone happy place for the past 6 months. Things are starting to open up a bit for gigs out here in NCAL and we'll see if the NV212t works for live work as well as the CN212 always did for me.

 

[Oldtimer]

I voted Mesa amp & Bergantino cab, as that is what I have! I am very interested in a Bergantino Forte HP head though.

 

[BassinCT]

I have always preferred to do the mix & match with heads and cabinets. Currently, it is the Mesa D-800+ and a Bergantino 112ER/EX combination.

 

[sunbeast]

Add me to the Mesa amps into Bergantino cab. Been playing some variety of Mesa head into a Berg NV610 for over a dozen years. Older Mesa cabs were too heavy for the performance, but the Subway cabs are light and incredibly high-performance.

 

[jeff62]

And me too: Mesa amp + Bergantino cab.

Mesa WD800 gives me all the adjustability from old school to high-Fi (for me anyway). And there's no cab I've ever played (Mesa included) that outshines my NV610. Absolutely solid, hit you in the face punch, controlled bottom and smooth too end (I hate tweeters). And the cab also sounds great with my GK Fusion 550.

 

[spufman]

With those two brands, I'd drive a Berg with a Mesa. And I would certainly include Genzler in any paragraph discussing this tier.

 

[BassinCT]

There are several of us who have gravitated toward some combination of these two brands. Both Mesa and Bergantino can cover a lot of sonic territory, and their reliability and customer service make them stand out in a crowded market! Those of us who were playing in the late 1980's/ early 90's: remember the classic GK RB___-> Hartke XL410 rig? Because there are so many more possible combinations now, I doubt that there will be one definitive combination that emerges beyond the TB community.

 

[Stubbrnmule]

Count me as a huge Bergantino fan- both in cabs and now amps. I recently purchased (several months ago) a B Amp and have it paired in a 322 combination 210 cab and 112 NT cab. The sound is amazing- but what that means to my ears is pure and clean. Not sterile, just clean. What I feed it is what I hear. Years ago I owned two HT322's, and since sold one but have kept one as well. This for years was my reference cab- I weighed the sound of all amps and various cabs to the HT. Still my overall favorite bass cab, but I am really enjoying the NXT series of cabs as well. Jim Bergantino is tops in that he takes a personal interest in feedback and questions from musicians. I have other amps and cabs still, and like them all- favorite beyond the B Amp is an Aguilar AG 700- also super clean and punchy crisp. I had a Aggy TH 700 which I recently sold as I couldn't justify keeping three class D heads around when I still have some old school heavyweights as well. But in the end, if I had to keep only one rig, it would be Bergantino all the way.

Footnote- just put TI flats on my jazz, and the sound from the bass through the B Amp and NXT "322" setup is unbelievable with punch, solid fundamentals, and harmonics. It's as if I picked up a new bass in the process...

 

[Frankie Fender]

Very hard to say. Totally subjective question. I've owned both, many Mesa heads and one Berg head. Many Mesa and Bergantino cabinets in my past. Bergantino cabinets for the win, they just have a special "something" and shine in a live mix.

Amps are all a matter of choice. I own a Berg Forte HP and a Mesa D-180. Mesa is putting out some incredible amps right now, each one has its own specialty depending on what you are looking for.

Both manufacturers produce state of the art gear in my opinion.

 

[Tim1]

As someone who owns both a Mesa 800+ and a Berg Forte HP I sadly cannot call a winner. I had thought when that when the Forte arrived I would make a choice and sell one on. I use Barefaced cabs. Initially the excitement of a new head worked in favour of the Forte HP, but right now I could not bring myself to get rid of either. I have grown accustomed to the 800+ and it's slightly warmer vibe. That said I find the heft behind each note that the Berg brings quite intoxicating, and its control structure and features just work for me, the closest I have ever got to a tube sound from a non tube amp. Then I plug into the Mesa and dig its distinctive vibe again..... One plus for the Mesa is that there is a New Zealand distributor so if there ever are any issues it should be easier to get them sorted, whereas the closest Bergantino outlet is Bass Gear Direct in Australia, although they have always been super helpful and efficient. A plus for the Berg forte hp is the extra 400 watts on offer, even though I probably don't use it.

 

[Heavy Blue]

This is tough as I have very limited experience with either company's cabs. I love Mesa amps though and own an original WA Scout combo and am currently GASing hard for a TT800 but I've only used my 112 WA combo speaker and a PH410 to date and I didn't take to the 410 at all as imo it was a muddy mess.

I very briefly played a used Berg 210 in our local ma and pa one time and it was pretty awesome. Wish I knew which one it was. It was in the store for a very short time.

It seems to me that the Subway cabs are very very nice but also very very pricey (C$2,568 for the 2x10 and 1x15. That's a whole lotta jing if you ask me!) plus they don't have the adjustable crossover like my WA does which kind of turns me off of them because imo for that kind of price it should have it hands down and it is a nice feature that I've used many times on the WA. I'd also like to see a totally defeatable tweeter. Really nice stuff but way expensive.

I have yet to run into a used one anywhere. The local area dealer won't stock any Mesa bass gear either which makes it even more frustrating. The one store guy told me that they aren't carrying Mesa anymore but he's such a bs artist to start with that I find it hard to believe. Plus there's still Mesa gear there 2 years later. Idk if the Berg cabs are price comparable or not.

Never played a Berg amp so no idea.

Would still love to try out the Subway cabs though as I've read so much good about them.

One other thought. I wonder if Mesa ever considered making a Subway 110? One or a pair of those for home use would be interesting.

 

[sunbeast]

This is tough as I have very limited experience with either company's cabs. I love Mesa amps though and own an original WA Scout combo and am currently GASing hard for a TT800 but I've only used my 112 WA combo speaker and a PH410 to date and I didn't take to the 410 at all as imo it was a muddy mess.

I very briefly played a used Berg 210 in our local ma and pa one time and it was pretty awesome. Wish I knew which one it was. It was in the store for a very short time.

It seems to me that the Subway cabs are very very nice but also very very pricey (C$2,568 for the 2x10 and 1x15. That's a whole lotta jing if you ask me!) plus they don't have the adjustable crossover like my WA does which kind of turns me off of them because imo for that kind of price it should have it hands down and it is a nice feature that I've used many times on the WA. I'd also like to see a totally defeatable tweeter. Really nice stuff but way expensive.

I have yet to run into a used one anywhere. The local area dealer won't stock any Mesa bass gear either which makes it even more frustrating. The one store guy told me that they aren't carrying Mesa anymore but he's such a bs artist to start with that I find it hard to believe. Plus there's still Mesa gear there 2 years later. Idk if the Berg cabs are price comparable or not.

Never played a Berg amp so no idea.

Would still love to try out the Subway cabs though as I've read so much good about them.

One other thought. I wonder if Mesa ever considered making a Subway 110? One or a pair of those for home use would be interesting.

It seems the modern philosophy with Mesa cabs is to only offer iterations that can be safely paired with their current amp offerings. The old 4ohm 12 Walkabout Scout combo is a great example of a totally mismatched situation that I think they are now consciously trying to avoid for the safety of the equipment- the Walkabout puts out 300 watts at 4ohms while the speaker used may well only take half of that power before it starts to distort. The Subway 112 these days is 8 ohms and rated for 400 watts safely, which is exactly what the modern Mesa bass heads all put out at 8 ohms. a Single 10 would most likely have a lower power handling than would be safe for use with modern Mesa heads, so I don't expect you'll see one. FWIW, there is no particular signature "tone" of a specific speaker size and the Subway 112 is already sufficiently featherweight and compact so you might try one out for yourself! If you are looking for an actual 10" "signature" tone for use with your Walkabout (in this case the classic tone is a result of the sealed compact box design as much as anything else), then the Ampeg 210AV cabs are a great option (and 2 of them with a Walkabout would be pretty loud and great relatively compact pairing for that amp IMO- it really benefits from that extra speaker area).

 

[Heavy Blue]

It seems the modern philosophy with Mesa cabs is to only offer iterations that can be safely paired with their current amp offerings. The old 4ohm 12 Walkabout Scout combo is a great example of a totally mismatched situation that I think they are now consciously trying to avoid for the safety of the equipment- the Walkabout puts out 300 watts at 4ohms while the speaker used may well only take half of that power before it starts to distort. The Subway 112 these days is 8 ohms and rated for 400 watts safely, which is exactly what the modern Mesa bass heads all put out at 8 ohms. a Single 10 would most likely have a lower power handling than would be safe for use with modern Mesa heads, so I don't expect you'll see one. FWIW, there is no particular signature "tone" of a specific speaker size and the Subway 112 is already sufficiently featherweight and compact so you might try one out for yourself! If you are looking for an actual 10" "signature" tone for use with your Walkabout (in this case the classic tone is a result of the sealed compact box design as much as anything else), then the Ampeg 210AV cabs are a great option (and 2 of them with a Walkabout would be pretty loud and great relatively compact pairing for that amp IMO- it really benefits from that extra speaker area).

I was thinking of a ported 10" with modern light weight construction simply for the easy portability and the small footprint. You're likely correct re the 112's portability though and I'd love to try out the Subway 112 (or any other Subway cab for the matter, I bet the 215 is amazing). Idk where the nearest place with a selection of Subway cabs would be to me. Probably Calgary which is about 640kms (@390 miles) away.

Afaik the 210AV's are sealed but yes, they are a more affordable option plus a 200w Ampeg half stack just popped up locally for C$400 and usually that's what a used 210AV cab alone goes for around here.

I'd like to see Mesa produce a similar 100-200w half stack with a small footprint and more suitable for home use and smaller gigs like the 200w Ampeg and Trace Elliot stacks. That being said the new TT800 is definitely my future replacement gigging amp for sure.

Fwiw, I find the WA's speaker to be fine as long as I don't try to pile on the bottom end with the gain dialled up past 10:00 with the master around 6 or 7. It pairs up surprisingly well with my 115 (not using the WA with this pair as it's a 2 ohm load) and its articulation components the 115's fullness. Currently it is part of my current living room rig with a GK Backline 350 going into it.

 

[projectapollo]

I am wanting to add an extension cab to my 8 ohm walkabout scout combo. Looking at a Mesa Subway (perhaps the 115) or a Bergantino REF112 that is available. Any thoughts? I like the idea of a convertible set-up where I can use the Walkabout amp with just the Berg or Subway extension cab or stack the 4 ohm combo if the need arises.

 

[msb]

I have an Ampeg 210AV and a Berg HDN210 . The Berg is from a different planet altogether . The AV is a good cab , the HDN is gorgeous .