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Epifani web page cabinet compatability warning.

#61
eff-clef said:
Markbass amps are mostly class AB not class D. Their power supplies are the switching type but the output is class AB not class D. Only the F1, and the SD800 are class D as far as I know. I think most people get that confused. I have had a SA450 Markbass amp for 6 months now and have used it with 4 different types of cabinets(Avatar.SWR.Ampeg.and Gallien-Krueger) I have pushed all those speakers hard and have not had any problems. I think the notice by Epifani is irresposible and horse hockey!
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Again, who knows what 'amp brand' they are even talking about, but given the wonderful match-up of the MB heads with their cabs (I have a LOT of my peers now using UL cabs and LMII's... so I assume MB is the one 'getting their goat'), your post makes their statement even more funny. Of couse, the vast majority of MB heads sold are class A/B:eek: LOL.

And, many of us used the Epi cabs for YEARS with the Walter Woods amps, which are truly the class D innovative product.
 
#63
I agree... No matter what the truth is to their bulletin, they will be taking it down very soon. They are most likely following this thread just as we are, and are re-writing their bulletin as we speak. If they aren't... then someone really needs to worry about losing their job. :(
 
#64
If this was a poor attempt at a marketing ploy to put a bug into people ears to talk badly about possible amps causing this problem they have fallen off the map as far as I am concerned as a bass gear company. Many people that are respected in this community have already called the "information" in that bulletin crap.

Waiting to see if that bulletin magically disappears. This could be a huge marketing backfire for them if it was just a ploy.
 
#65
I hope they can bring some specific data to back up what they are claiming. Maybe the company that they buy their speakers from has put this explanation in Epifani's head as a way of justifying the speaker failure issues and Epifani bought it.
 
#66
fenderhutz said:
Isn't the Shuttle 6.0 class D? That's a new amp as well and it hasn't been out for a long time.
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The class D amps I'm aware of are:

Epi PS600, 502, 902
MB F1 and SD800
The entire recent EA line of amps
The entire AI line of amps
Walter Woods
Genz Shuttle
I'm sure there are a few more.

Again, the whole thing doesn't even make any sense to me other than a 'sledge hammer' type attempt to say... if you buy our cabs, you really should buy our heads'.

Of course, IMO... but I feel pretty sure about this.
 
#67
As a fellow marketing guy like Ken, I agree that this is awful. To me, it will cost you more sales of Epifani cabs than get you to go with the Epifani heads! Just my 2 cents and personal opinion.

I'm still going with the PS410 as it seems very few have had trouble with the cabs. I have a neopak which will be my backup head with this cab but I just fail to believe that it will blow the cab!

My guess is also that Markbass is the target but alot of good it does anyone even if this were true as they don't name names. What am I suppossed to do, sell my neopak just in case and buy the Epifani. As good a deal as I found the PS410, there heads are expensive vs. similar competition, and that is why they don't sell IMO>
 
#68
As far as "many people in this community" statement I only have read Bill F's statements and don't see a list of those with scientific expertise responding to the issue one way or the other.
 
#69
USAJO said:
I hope they can bring some specific data to back up what they are claiming. Maybe the company that they buy their speakers from has put this explanation in Epifani's head as a way of justifying the speaker failure issues and Epifani bought it.
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I would hope they would have an in house engineer on the payroll that could at least verify these claims, their cabs aren't cheap.
 
#70
USAJO said:
As far as "many people in this community" statement I only have read Bill F's statements and don't see a list of those with scientific expertise responding to the issue one way or the other.
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I wasn't referring to scientific responses but players that use the gear, weekly or even daily in a pro/semi pro capacity. As well as the hundreds of threads in these forums.
 
#71
USAJO said:
As far as "many people in this community" statement I only have read Bill F's statements and don't see a list of those with scientific expertise responding to the issue one way or the other.
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If you do a search, there are about 20 threads and probably a thousand posts on the 'underpowering' issue, with quite a few of the EE types weighing in. It's an interesting topic, and quite misunderstood (I sure didn't understand it prior to crunching my way through all those threads and posts over the last couple of years).
 
#72
I don't see why some are jumping to the conclusion it is a marketing ploy. I think the repair department is getting hit with people expecting speakers to be replaced at no charge and the manufacturer of the speaker itself has said there is something other than speaker failure at work here. I would have to believe Epifani speaker cab sales are at an all time high. Their amps never were much of a factor in over all sales figures I would guess.
 
#73
USAJO said:
I don't see why some are jumping to the conclusion it is a marketing ploy. I think the repair department is getting hit with people expecting speakers to be replaced at no charge and the manufacturer of the speaker itself has said there is something other than speaker failure at work here. I would have to believe Epifani speaker cab sales are at an all time high. Their amps never were much of a factor in over all sales figures I doubt.
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If that's the case, then the statement would not have implied that other manufacturer's amplification design was the primary reason. This does not pass the sniff test to me, and the fact that their amps 'were not much of a factor in overall sales' is what actually makes the whole thing sound suspect to me (given the strong implication regarding 'non Epifani' amplification being the primary cause of the problem).

The whole thing is a 'tempest in a teapot' obviously (i.e., most won't even bother to read it, and many more won't even get what they are talking about).

It's just disappointing to me personally, being a customer and steady Epifani cab user for almost 15 years, and recent Epifani amp purchaser. No big deal... I'm going to keep using their wonderful stuff, and mostly with non-Epifani amps!

I would have had no problem with them saying... 'warning... if you turn an amp up so loud that the cones are jumping through the grill, and you blow a speaker, we will gladly replace that speaker, but not for free'!
 
#74
KJung said:
If you do a search, there are about 20 threads and probably a thousand posts on the 'underpowering' issue, with quite a few of the EE types weighing in.
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+1

It isn't just Bill F. There are many EE's and techies here who can explain how underpowering (with respect to woofers) is a myth. In all the years I've been here I've read many, many threads on the subject, and I don't recall any disagreement from anyone who had the technical expertise to back up his opinion.
 
#75
What about the DC charge part of the bulletin. Can the amp in question be allowing this to happen damaging the speaker?

It is stated there are many EE's here who have agreed with Bill F. That is not the same as saying all EE's agree. Is it a slam dunk? Do all EE's agree with this? If so I can't imagine how Epifani would make such an uneducated statement. I could make it because it is all I ever heard but I'm not an EE. Do all EE's agree or not?

I'll continue using the cabs because they sound great to me. But geesh, I am stunned that they could issue such a statement if it is so incorrect.
 
#76
USAJO said:
What about the DC charge part of the bulletin. Can the amp in question be allowing this to happen damaging the speaker?

It is stated there are many EE's here who have agreed with Bill F. That is not the same as saying all EE's agree. Is it a slam dunk? Do all EE's agree with this? If so I can't imagine how Epifani would make such an uneducated statement. I could make it because it is all I ever heard but I'm not an EE. Do all EE's agree or not?

I'll continue using the cabs because they sound great to me. But geesh, I am stunned that they could issue such a statement if it is so incorrect.
Click to expand...
Well, don't forget that companies make mistakes from time to time. Accugroove marketed a cabinet with a switch that it claimed could change the impendence of a cab for sometime before withdrawing it. Sometimes people just stuff up or make a decision without really thinking it through. Even if they should know better.
 
#77
One possibility I can see is that these new amps (Markbass, Genz Benz), Class D or not, seem to boast much more power than similarly spec'd amps from other companies. 500 watts from an SWR amp isn't going to push an Epifani cab as hard as 500 watts from a Markbass due to their differences in rating. Perhaps Epifani's wattage specs for their cabs are slanted toward amps like Eden or SWR that don't seem as loud as these new offerings from Markbass, Genz, EA, etc...
I don't know where Epifani's own amps fall in terms of 'rated wattage VS perceived loudness', but is it possible that some amplifiers by other companies are pushing these cabs too hard despite seemingly compatible wattage specs?
Do I make any sense? :confused:
 
#79
::::BASSIST:::: said:
I honestly don't think that Epifani is trying to mislead people. It seems pretty under-handed.
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I am guessing they have gotten a flood of calls from users using a certain amp and that's why there are red flags.

Maybe a defective run of amps since people rave about their cabs? Maybe crossover issues? Maybe their impedance rating are off slightly on the newer runs?
 
#80
I didn't read the whole thread, so this may have been answered somewhat, but if this Epi's statement was truly a valid one, there must be other cab manufacturers having the same issues for this to be legitimate, correct?

Is Accugroove, Bergantino, or EA having the same problems? If so, fine, but this is the first that I've heard of such a claim.

If there aren't any other complaints from other cab manufacturers, then the whole letter seems silly to me because the way I read then is that Epi may be making an inferior product that can't hold up like other cabs.

The letter is clearly an attempt to hopefully increase sales of their amps. I'm not sure who's giving them marketing advice, but this is a pretty weak way of doing business, at least IMO. If you want to increase sales, lower your prices, development a better product, or all of the above, but don't go to the point of discrediting another competitors product, at least not like this.

I've held Epifani with the highest regard, but I must admit, this incident makes me think much less of them.
 

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