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Double Bass Epiphone Upright Bass research questions
- Thread starter MollyKay
- Start date
- Jan 12, 2004
- 1,493
- 1,270
- Disclosures
- Owner, Stand Up Guy Basses (Repair/Sell/Buy upright basses)
Hi MollyKay,
I hope you're still collecting info on Epiphones, as I have two B4s to mention. They're very similar, and close in serial numbers, so I'll mostly describe them simultaneously:
They are Epi B4 basses #1708 and 1717.
Both:
- are tobacco and dark brown sunburst
- have chrome tuners
- have dark brown tailpieces
- have their serial numbers stamped at the end of the fingerboard
- probably came from the Michigan school system
Now the differences:
#1708 had a neck break, along the arm. It was glued back together when I got it, but is still fairly fragile. The body and edges are in quite good shape.
#1717 has never had a neck break, and has a thicker neck than it's partner. This one has a nicely flamed back and sides, and more edge wear on the body.
I'm guessing that they'd both be from about 1955, but let me know if I'm off in this guess.
Hope this info is of some use, and here are a couple of pics of #1717
Cheers,
Paul (eh_train)
I hope you're still collecting info on Epiphones, as I have two B4s to mention. They're very similar, and close in serial numbers, so I'll mostly describe them simultaneously:
They are Epi B4 basses #1708 and 1717.
Both:
- are tobacco and dark brown sunburst
- have chrome tuners
- have dark brown tailpieces
- have their serial numbers stamped at the end of the fingerboard
- probably came from the Michigan school system
Now the differences:
#1708 had a neck break, along the arm. It was glued back together when I got it, but is still fairly fragile. The body and edges are in quite good shape.
#1717 has never had a neck break, and has a thicker neck than it's partner. This one has a nicely flamed back and sides, and more edge wear on the body.
I'm guessing that they'd both be from about 1955, but let me know if I'm off in this guess.
Hope this info is of some use, and here are a couple of pics of #1717
Cheers,
Paul (eh_train)
Attachments
Hi Paul
Yep!
The database and the website are active and accurate. The Epiphone database now stands at 293 basses cataloged.
# 1708 was previously cataloged and is one of the first basses with the serial number stamped at the end of the fingerboard. It is unique as it was probably one of the early basses moved from NY manufacturing to the PA factory after the labor strike in 1952.
#1717 was not previously cataloged so thank you!
Yep!
The database and the website are active and accurate. The Epiphone database now stands at 293 basses cataloged.
# 1708 was previously cataloged and is one of the first basses with the serial number stamped at the end of the fingerboard. It is unique as it was probably one of the early basses moved from NY manufacturing to the PA factory after the labor strike in 1952.
#1717 was not previously cataloged so thank you!
Let me just throw my hat in the ring. I've made several Epiphone tailpiece medallions. It's a cold casting technique and it looks like real thing.
- Jan 12, 2004
- 1,493
- 1,270
- Disclosures
- Owner, Stand Up Guy Basses (Repair/Sell/Buy upright basses)
Um, yep, let me give credit where credit is due:
Epiphone Bass #1717 (pictured two posts above) is sporting a genuine Epi B4 replacement tailpiece emblem, courtesy of John Hay (360 guy).
Thanks John!
Paul (eh_train)
Epiphone Bass #1717 (pictured two posts above) is sporting a genuine Epi B4 replacement tailpiece emblem, courtesy of John Hay (360 guy).
Thanks John!
Paul (eh_train)
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
I have nothing to do with it, I just saw it and thought someone might be interested in it. I think it's pretty sharp looking!
I have nothing to do with it, I just saw it and thought someone might be interested in it. I think it's pretty sharp looking!
Here's are some badges I recently made. They need to be painted. Still the Epi's look best with the dressed tailpiece!
One more for the list:
Model B4, Serial 474 located at the end pin
Well aged blonde (maybe a little bit of burst)
Double black with no loop.
Tail piece is blonde
Model B4, Serial 474 located at the end pin
Well aged blonde (maybe a little bit of burst)
Double black with no loop.
Tail piece is blonde
Hi I just bought this bass off of Craigslist the other day and need a little extra help determining what it is. I want to say it's an epiphone but after reviewing your checklist it doesn't look like it is one. Still there are some pieces that don't add up.
There is t any serial number in any of the usual spots. There is a number 141 stamped on the headstock but I believe that was from a school.
An epiphone metal badge was on the tail piece hanging on by one original pin. The top had tape on it covering the name. I took the badge off to restore the name and clean the tape gunk off. The badge has what looks like hand etched "w" "s" and "41" on it where it should have the model name. Not sure if those mean anything or if the 41 refers to the year. The seller told me that maybe it came from a guitar and I understand that happens for fake epiphones but this one seems made just for a bass tailpiece and had what looks like and original pin still pinned to it.
It has a rosewood fingerboard and tail piece. And has some cream color on the edges of the body. A pin stripe on the back of the neck.
Something tells me it just might be an epiphone but all the evidence says no. Either way it has the age from that era and I picked it up for $300 with a nice case, stand and now. It has a beautiful full and rich sound. I attached some pictures. Let me know what you think or have any questions about it.
Thanks
Edit: the bridge was replaced.
There is t any serial number in any of the usual spots. There is a number 141 stamped on the headstock but I believe that was from a school.
An epiphone metal badge was on the tail piece hanging on by one original pin. The top had tape on it covering the name. I took the badge off to restore the name and clean the tape gunk off. The badge has what looks like hand etched "w" "s" and "41" on it where it should have the model name. Not sure if those mean anything or if the 41 refers to the year. The seller told me that maybe it came from a guitar and I understand that happens for fake epiphones but this one seems made just for a bass tailpiece and had what looks like and original pin still pinned to it.
It has a rosewood fingerboard and tail piece. And has some cream color on the edges of the body. A pin stripe on the back of the neck.
Something tells me it just might be an epiphone but all the evidence says no. Either way it has the age from that era and I picked it up for $300 with a nice case, stand and now. It has a beautiful full and rich sound. I attached some pictures. Let me know what you think or have any questions about it.
Thanks
Edit: the bridge was replaced.
Attachments
Wow...awesome find!
I can confirm exactly what you have found...it's a very early Epiphone B3 model. The stamped serial number 141 next to the peg box is absolutely in the correct spot for this early of a model. This would be the 41st bass made by Epiphone in their New York factory. It most likely is a late 1939 or early 1940.
The 41 is not the year of manufacture but the bass serial number. I have owned several of this model, numbers 103, 106, 122, 125 so I can confirm this is the real deal. This model has the three piece neck, the kluson tuners with the five art deco lines engrave on the tuner plate. The original blonde finish with the slight white overspray edges is correct as well.
What is not original is the black pin stripe outline around the FF holes, that was an attempt to fake it and make it look like a Kay Swingmaster. The engraving on the tail badge is not factory as well. The very early models had no model number stamped on it as it was too early in their design and manufacturing to have established the full line of five bass models, B1, B2, B3, B4 and the top of the line B5.
Thanks so much for your posting. It is an exciting find. I will record your bass in to my Epiphone database which continues to grow. My website is still active and accurate. Bass Monkey
Thanks again...still love my basses! Wendy
I can confirm exactly what you have found...it's a very early Epiphone B3 model. The stamped serial number 141 next to the peg box is absolutely in the correct spot for this early of a model. This would be the 41st bass made by Epiphone in their New York factory. It most likely is a late 1939 or early 1940.
The 41 is not the year of manufacture but the bass serial number. I have owned several of this model, numbers 103, 106, 122, 125 so I can confirm this is the real deal. This model has the three piece neck, the kluson tuners with the five art deco lines engrave on the tuner plate. The original blonde finish with the slight white overspray edges is correct as well.
What is not original is the black pin stripe outline around the FF holes, that was an attempt to fake it and make it look like a Kay Swingmaster. The engraving on the tail badge is not factory as well. The very early models had no model number stamped on it as it was too early in their design and manufacturing to have established the full line of five bass models, B1, B2, B3, B4 and the top of the line B5.
Thanks so much for your posting. It is an exciting find. I will record your bass in to my Epiphone database which continues to grow. My website is still active and accurate. Bass Monkey
Thanks again...still love my basses! Wendy
Pegbox #1022 is on the workbench getting the same treatment as your American Standard- a new neck and scroll graft.
Thank you for the all info. It made me really happy to find out the history of my bass. Makes the find even more exciting!
John (360guy) sent me a few prototypes of his cast Epiphone tailpiece badges a while back to checkout. 'Gotta say that they are a unique solution and anyone that did not know it would never know it was not the real deal. If I was missing one, I'd jump at a chance to get one of his reproductions. I have a customer that has been trying to find an original for 7 years (!!!!!) with no luck.
Here is a sneak at the end result of the scroll graft I mentioned a few months ago. Everything came out great, but the nerdy little detail that I liked the most was remembering to match the stamped serial numbers on the pegbox cheek shelf. That funky looking nut is the original- it had such a unique look and tooling that we decided to keep it.This was a cool bass when I first saw it....imagine taking that as the core and then having a full new neck custom built to your specs and hand size out of curly European maple; perhaps the ultimate vintage Epiphone nerd's bass. Trying to match a vintage sunburst that had different color fades every time you rotated the bass 90 degrees was no simple task either! This one (along with a BUNCH of other vintage custom rebuilds I have done) will be on stage at the IBMA Awards festival in Raleigh, NC all week. Don't hesitate to ask and give it a good thump!
j.
condino.com
kaybassrepair.com
Here is a sneak at the end result of the scroll graft I mentioned a few months ago. Everything came out great, but the nerdy little detail that I liked the most was remembering to match the stamped serial numbers on the pegbox cheek shelf. That funky looking nut is the original- it had such a unique look and tooling that we decided to keep it.This was a cool bass when I first saw it....imagine taking that as the core and then having a full new neck custom built to your specs and hand size out of curly European maple; perhaps the ultimate vintage Epiphone nerd's bass. Trying to match a vintage sunburst that had different color fades every time you rotated the bass 90 degrees was no simple task either! This one (along with a BUNCH of other vintage custom rebuilds I have done) will be on stage at the IBMA Awards festival in Raleigh, NC all week. Don't hesitate to ask and give it a good thump!
j.
condino.com
kaybassrepair.com
Last edited:
Happy to find your website!
I have provided all the info I could find.
Please feel free to add me and the B4 to your registry.
I would be interested to know what the value is.
Thank You,
Wally
· What is the serial number and where was it located? 776 under the E
· What is the model number? B4
· Is your tail piece? highly flamed maple
· What color is your bass? Blonde
· What finish are your tuners? Brass
· Are your tuners etched? No
· Does the bass have real Black/White/Black purfling. YES
· Does it have a purfling "loop" ? YES
· Any guess as to what year the bass was made and this is a guess. 1946 ?
· Any other notable characteristics to the bass? See attached pictures.
I have provided all the info I could find.
Please feel free to add me and the B4 to your registry.
I would be interested to know what the value is.
Thank You,
Wally
· What is the serial number and where was it located? 776 under the E
· What is the model number? B4
· Is your tail piece? highly flamed maple
· What color is your bass? Blonde
· What finish are your tuners? Brass
· Are your tuners etched? No
· Does the bass have real Black/White/Black purfling. YES
· Does it have a purfling "loop" ? YES
· Any guess as to what year the bass was made and this is a guess. 1946 ?
· Any other notable characteristics to the bass? See attached pictures.
Attachments
Appears to be early post-war, but I'm sure MollyKay or another expert will chime in. Value depends a lot on geographic location, condition (what's up with the lower area on the back?), and playability (every bass I buy seems to eat up around $500 in setup costs, and significant repairs get expensive). A luthier in your area can give you a better assessment of its condition and value; I've seen them range from under $1000 to nearly $3000. They're nice basses.
